Minutes for W3C User Agent Teleconference for October 25 2007

Action Items:

JA to Look at GL5
CL to Look at GL6
KF to Look at GL7
JR to Look at GL8
PP to Look at GL9
GR to Look at GL10
JA to Look at GL11
JR to Look at GL12
JR to Do agenda
KF to New rewording of 2.3
JA to Proposal on user override o author defined "politeness"

Minutes Link:

Minutes Text:

KF: Can't make it to F2F.

JR: Call in?

KF: Interested

JA: Jan, Jim, Cathy F2F+ maybe Gregory
... Kelly, Peter on phone + maybe Gregory
... We are making strides on Req

JR: No replies from observers

1. review action items
KF: Action item likely supplanted by new group review of GL2

JA: Agreed
... GR on 2.2

GR: XPROC - maybe way to handle mashups...
... XML pipeline language...by controlling flow could cue things up and 
decide what to accept, not accept

JA: Relation?

GR: Course of last resort being document source...and Cathy brought up 
that mashups make this hard...
... So I was asked to look at this from plain page and compound page view

CL: Is Rich doing things related to ACCLIP from IMS

GR: Pinged him ..... XPROC has same namespacing issue as many other 
languages at the moment
... XPROC last call ended yesterday
... Defer to Rich on this

<AllanJ> XPROC reference http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-xproc-20070920/

CL: Can find out more from Rich

GR: Not light reading, large and very detailed
... Tomorrow comments on XHTML role are due
... 3 PF request on XHTML Role...
... TITLE missing from list of pre-defined roles
... Other 2....now does not allow for strings of normal 
expressions...still seeking consistent way of implementing ARIA across 
... ARIA issue running into name-spacing issues
... On 31st of Oct. Rich will be chairing a call on the name spacing issue
... Will be a cross group meeting.

JA: Back to TITLE issue...sould that be used to give title to live 
regions etc?

GR: Right now we are looking at page titling, but extensible so could be 
used to title areas
... It's a reusable way of annotating.
... Problem now is that <title> in <head> filled with placeholder since 
it only gets exposed in the chrome
... We want to set a F2F agenda today

GR should be JA

JA: CL thinks we should make some pre-F2F assignments
... Still mashing through 1-4 but we still have 5-12...
... So think we should go through them and see where gaps and proposals 

CL: So where comments are?

JA: Looking at Wiki where we have UAAG2 Issues
... Ex. GL5 has no issues at the moment
... GL6 is all about APIs
... So I went through and scribbled prelim list...
... So JA=>GL5
... Cathy=>GL6?


<scribe> ACTION: JA to Look at GL5 [recorded in 

<scribe> ACTION: CL to Look at GL6 [recorded in 

<scribe> ACTION: KF to Look at GL7 [recorded in 

CL: May add some high contrast issue stuff to GL7

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Look at GL8 [recorded in 

<scribe> ACTION: PP to Look at GL9 [recorded in 

<scribe> ACTION: GR to Look at GL10 [recorded in 

<scribe> ACTION: JA to Look at GL11 [recorded in 

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Look at GL12 [recorded in 

JA: Gap identification AND/OR proposals
... Also pls send to list
... Tentatively lets just schedule 1.5 hours per guideline...
... CL has to go a bit early on Tues.

PP: Have some meetings on those days so I'll send my schedule

JA: Some may run over and others go short

JR: F2F 9-17:30 both days

JA: 2,3,4 should get some time too

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Do agenda [recorded in 

2.3 Render conditional content (P1)
KF: Confusing...
... Does this still reflect overall intent of what we want UA's to do?
... Other words, is this what we want it to do or is it missing something
... My impression is that this is what we want, but maybe language needs 

JA: So currently conditional content is hard to get at
... ex. alt
... Then there are fallbacks like noscript
... So this says even if there is a way to get conditional content

<oedipus> 3.6 needs a bullet to the effect: Allow configuration to allow 
simultaneous rendering of an image and its long descriptor

<oedipus> rationale: guidance for those with very limited viewport; 
assistance to those with congnative processing; provides guide through 
flow of image

JA: Conditional content: defn read by Jim

<AllanJ> JR: primary and secondary content,

<oedipus> FYI HTML WG wiki page: 

KF: So if multiple versions sent to browser, browser should show access 
to all
... Example of flash app

GR: HTML working group has been discussing use cases where all cases are 

JA: So is the problem just the language?

<oedipus> FYI HTML WG Wiki page: http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ABetterAlt

CL: Don't think this lang requires access to all...e.g. C in place of D

KF: I think for end user we want ALL.

<oedipus> Image Equivalent Content - contains a lot of discussion of 
issues we are currently discussing in this telecon: 

JR: How would this look/sound?

KF: User agent might ... kind of like stylesheet...

CL: So settings...

FK: eg. I'd like this or this or both of these.

CL: Key could switcvh...

KF: e.g. image toggle
... Browser knows about what it detects

CL: Not technically impossible

KF: Users would play with it a bit

JA: So users wouldn't have to query

KF: Screen readers already do this.
... If you turn things off they can handle it

CL: So maybe "Doing More"

GR: ARIA could be used

KF: I think I have an idea of what people are looking for...I will rewrite

<scribe> ACTION: KF to New rewording of 2.3 [recorded in 

<AllanJ> JR: user should be able to define things by modality, give me 
flash, but have a key to render text if available...

<AllanJ> ...configure for permanant swaps for content, but allow 
swapping on demand

JA: Other things...2.4...

2.4 Allow time-independent interaction (P1)
JA: Thought there may be some AJAX issue...
... Think I am ok with this
... Live regions come into play so much - not sure we need to do 
anything here

CL: Will put link in IRC from Aaron Leventhal on issues


JA: Somewhere we need to have user override of "politeness"

GR: Very analagous to CSS "importance"

<scribe> ACTION: JA to Proposal on user override o author defined 
"politeness" [recorded in 

KF: But web techs are pushing envelope on what UA can know about...
... Maybe we need add a section on this content taking over UA roles

<oedipus> XProc: An XML Pipeline Language - http://www.w3.org/TR/xproc/ 
(LC closed yesterday)

JA: Sounds good

JR: Yes

... Trying to harmonize with HTML5 too...
... HTML5 has lots of UA guidance
... HTML5 will also have an authoring tool section

JA: We continue to have AJAX discussion and I've expressed some of these 
concerns to PF...it's certainly something we can put in the 
introduction...plus I'd like to get it into the guidelines

CL: With new events, live regions etc. we'll need to discuss in doc.

GR: PF asking HTML5 to use ARIA model
... But may break certain XML based implementations
... ARAI will be TR long before HMTL5

CL: ANd there is ARIA support in Firefox

GR: ANd Opera
... Am doing some QA on PF's ARIA examples

JA: We have many audio/video things scattered about....

<oedipus> GJR notes that he now has CVS access so can (after TPAC) mount 
the "until user agent..." page and the "UA Support" pages to be updated 
as we discussed in august

JA: This is another area where we can bogged down...maybe we can pull 
them out


<AllanJ> JR: media is similar to Web 2.0 stuff, the browser does not 
know about the content and functionality...

KF: In some degree language reflective of time 1.0 was written

<AllanJ> e.g. using scripting and divs etc. to create a slider

KF: On one call we talked out thinking about other user agents
... Needs to stay...
... Maybe there are ways to clean them up.

Jim Allan wrote:
> W3C User Agent Teleconference for October 25 2007
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Chair: Jim Allan
> Date: Thursday, October 25 2007
> Time: 1:00-2:00 pm Boston Local Time, USA (18:00-19:00 UTC/GMT)
> Call-in: Zakim bridge at: +1-617-761-6200, code 82941# for UK use
> 44-117.270-6152
> IRC: sever: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #ua.
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Agenda:
> 0. Regrets, agenda requests, or comments to the list
> 1. review action items
> GR to Flesh out requirements of text view for 2.2 
> KF to Bring back a proposal to rework 2.3 Render Cond. Content 
> JA to Follow up with Anne van Kesteren
> JR: Follow up with observer requests - done
> JR: Requirements doc
> 2. continue stepping through guidelines 1-4 in the wiki
> 3. Creating Agenda for Tech Plenary
> Jim Allan, Webmaster & Statewide Technical Support Specialist Texas School
> for the Blind and Visually Impaired 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
> voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
> "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964

Jan Richards, M.Sc.
User Interface Design Specialist
Adaptive Technology Resource Centre (ATRC)
Faculty of Information Studies
University of Toronto

   Email: jan.richards@utoronto.ca
   Web:   http://jan.atrc.utoronto.ca
   Phone: 416-946-7060
   Fax:   416-971-2896

Received on Thursday, 25 October 2007 18:15:03 UTC