- From: Al Gilman <asgilman@iamdigex.net>
- Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:59:17 -0500
- To: Jon Gunderson <jongund@uiuc.edu>
- Cc: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
What you said. At 10:13 AM 2001-03-13 -0600, Jon Gunderson wrote: >Al, >At this stage in the process the problem and potential solutions need to be >very carefully documented. This is a new requirement (was not discussed to >my knowledge by the working group as a feature before the March FTF) that >is potentially very difficult for developers to implement, we need both >good justification for the feature, how the feature should work and >examples of the problem in the real world (like onChange) as a part of the >techniques document. > >I do not want the document to go to last call without everyone in the >working group understanding the issue and that understanding reflected >clearly in the document. AG:: Yes. >I do not want a repeat of our previous last call >when the whole area of access to event handlers was barely mentioned in the >document. > AG:: Yes. Al >Jon > > >At 10:20 AM 3/13/2001 -0500, you wrote: >>At 12:15 AM 2001-03-13 -0800, Aaron Leventhal wrote: >> > >> > In my view, onfocus and onblur events are not used in ways destructive to >> > accessibility. Perhaps someone can prove me wrong. >> > I also think it's putting a big burden on developers, and the complexity of >> > the UI, to support navigating to elements without focusing there. >> >> >>AG:: Is this your impression of what is being asked? >> >>What if the kind of 'navigating' we are talking about is precisely "focusing >>there." The condition for creation of the onFocus event happens. The >>event is >>created. This would leave the implementation the job to intercept the onFocus >>event so that it does not reach its handler without further approval. >> >>Is that onerous? >> >>Capturing the event is functionally similar to the example David Poelman >>mentioned >> >> <<http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0004C&L=adv-html&P=R636>http://bama.ua .edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0004CL=adv-html&P=R636><http://bama.u/>http://bama.u >>a.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0004CL=adv-html&P=R636 >> >>in his post at >> >> blocking enter key form submission: >> >> <<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001JanMar/0747.html>http:/ /lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001JanMar/0747.html>http: >>//lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001JanMar/0747.html >> >>If capturing the onFocus event is onerous, do you have a non-onerous solution >>to satisfying Checkpoint 5.4 on form submission? >> >> >> > >> > Personally, if we can't find a real world example, I'd like to see onfocus >> > and onblur events excluded from the bit about needing to navigate without >> > setting off event handlers. Unless someone can argue a good case where it's >> > really useful. >> >> >>AG:: >> >>You don't need to find an actual old paint can of kerosene soaked rags in your >>neighbor's house to have a rule against them. >> >>There have been a lot of casualties from use of onChange to submit forms. >>While it is true that there is a way to use the screen reader interface to >>work >>around this, it is risky to rely for public safety on "there is a safe way to >>use this." >> >>Maybe we should make the technology safe without requiring casualties first. >> >>Al >> >> >> > >> > Aaron >> > >> > jon gunderson wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Does any body have any information on the current use of onFoucs and>> >>onBlur events?>> >> Jon>> >> >> On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Aaron Leventhal >>wrote:>> >> </pre>>> <blockquote type=cite cite>>> Can anyone find a real >>world example where the automatic onfocus that's >> called is something you >>don't want automated?>> BTW, thanks to Gregory for the example (albeit >>strange) of the >> destructive this.close() call.>> >> Aaron>> >> >> -- >> >>For information about Netscape and Mozilla Accessibility projects, >> >>please see the Access Mozilla <a >>href="<http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net/>http://access-mozilla.sourc eforge.net/" >>eudora="autourl"><<http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net%26gt;%3C/a%3E >http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net> >> >>website.>> To join the mozilla-accessibility mailing list, send email to >> >><a >>href="<mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org>mailto:mozilla-ac cessibility-request@mozilla.org">mozilla-accessibilit >>y!>> -request@mozilla.org</a> >> <a >>href="<mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org%3Fsubject=subscri be>mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org%3Fsubject=subscribe" >>eudora="autourl"><<mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org%3F subjec>mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org?subjec >>t=subscribe></a>, >> subject "subscribe".>> >> >> >> >></blockquote></blockquote>>> <font size=3>-- <br>>> For information about >>Netscape and Mozilla Accessibility projects, please see the <a >>href="<http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net/>http://access-mozilla.sourc eforge.net">Access Mozilla</a> >>website.<br>>> To join the mozilla-accessibility mailing list, send email >>to <a >>href="<mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org%3Fsubject=subscri be>mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org?subject=subscribe">mo >>zilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org</a>, subject >>"subscribe".<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> </blockquote><br>>> >></font></html>>> >> >>> >> >>> Can anyone find a real world example where the automatic onfocus that's >> >>> called is something you don't want automated? BTW, thanks to Gregory for >> >>> the example (albeit strange) of the destructive this.close() call. >>Aaron -- >> >>> For information about Netscape and Mozilla Accessibility projects, please >> >>> see the Access Mozilla >> >>> >> <<http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net/>http://access-mozilla.sourceforge. net/><<http://access-mozilla.sourcefor/>http://access-mozilla.sourcefor>> > > > ge.net> websit > >Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP >Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology >Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services >MC-574 >College of Applied Life Studies >University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign >1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL 61820 > >Voice: (217) 244-5870 >Fax: (217) 333-0248 > >E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu > >WWW: <http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund>http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund >WWW: <http://www.w3.org/wai/ua>http://www.w3.org/wai/ua >
Received on Tuesday, 13 March 2001 11:38:39 UTC