Re: Real world example of destructive onfocus

Al,
At this stage in the process the problem and potential solutions need to be 
very carefully documented.  This is a new requirement (was not discussed to 
my knowledge by the working group as a feature before the March FTF) that 
is potentially very difficult for developers to implement, we need both 
good justification for the feature, how the feature should work and 
examples of the problem in the real world (like onChange) as a part of the 
techniques document.

I do not want the document to go to last call without everyone in the 
working group understanding the issue and that understanding reflected 
clearly in the document.  I do not want a repeat of our previous last call 
when the whole area of access to event handlers was barely mentioned in the 
document.

Jon


At 10:20 AM 3/13/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>At 12:15 AM 2001-03-13 -0800, Aaron Leventhal wrote:
> >
> > In my view, onfocus and onblur events are not used in ways destructive to
> > accessibility. Perhaps someone can prove me wrong.
> > I also think it's putting a big burden on developers, and the complexity of
> > the UI, to support navigating to elements without focusing there.
>
>
>AG:: Is this your impression of what is being asked?
>
>What if the kind of 'navigating' we are talking about is precisely "focusing
>there."  The condition for creation of the onFocus event happens.  The
>event is
>created.  This would leave the implementation the job to intercept the onFocus
>event so that it does not reach its handler without further approval.
>
>Is that onerous?
>
>Capturing the event is functionally similar to the example David Poelman
>mentioned
>
>  <http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0004C&L=adv-html&P=R636>http://bama.u
>a.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0004CL=adv-html&P=R636
>
>in his post at
>
>  blocking enter key form submission:
>
>  <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001JanMar/0747.html>http:
>//lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2001JanMar/0747.html
>
>If capturing the onFocus event is onerous, do you have a non-onerous solution
>to satisfying Checkpoint 5.4 on form submission?
>
>
> >
> > Personally, if we can't find a real world example, I'd like to see onfocus
> > and onblur events excluded from the bit about needing to navigate without
> > setting off event handlers. Unless someone can argue a good case where it's
> > really useful.
>
>
>AG::
>
>You don't need to find an actual old paint can of kerosene soaked rags in your
>neighbor's house to have a rule against them.
>
>There have been a lot of casualties from use of onChange to submit forms.
>While it is true that there is a way to use the screen reader interface to
>work
>around this, it is risky to rely for public safety on "there is a safe way to
>use this."
>
>Maybe we should make the technology safe without requiring casualties first.
>
>Al
>
>
> >
> > Aaron
> >
> > jon gunderson wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Does any body have any information on the current use of onFoucs and>>
>onBlur events?>> >> Jon>> >> >> On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Aaron Leventhal
>wrote:>> >> </pre>>> <blockquote type=cite cite>>> Can anyone find a real
>world example where the automatic onfocus that's >> called is something you
>don't want automated?>> BTW, thanks to Gregory for the example (albeit
>strange) of the >> destructive this.close() call.>> >> Aaron>> >> >> -- >>
>For information about Netscape and Mozilla Accessibility projects, >>
>please see the Access Mozilla <a
>href="http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net/"
>eudora="autourl">&lt;http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net&gt;</a> >>
>website.>> To join the mozilla-accessibility mailing list, send email to >>
><a
>href="mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org">mozilla-accessibilit
>y!>> -request@mozilla.org</a> >> <a
>href="mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org%3Fsubject=subscribe"
>eudora="autourl">&lt;mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org?subjec
>t=subscribe&gt;</a>, >> subject &quot;subscribe&quot;.>> >> >> >>
></blockquote></blockquote>>> <font size=3>-- <br>>> For information about
>Netscape and Mozilla Accessibility projects, please see the <a
>href="http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net">Access Mozilla</a>
>website.<br>>> To join the mozilla-accessibility mailing list, send email
>to <a
>href="mailto:mozilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org?subject=subscribe">mo
>zilla-accessibility-request@mozilla.org</a>, subject
>&quot;subscribe&quot;.<br>>> <br>>> <br>>> </blockquote><br>>>
></font></html>>>
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone find a real world example where the automatic onfocus that's
> >>> called is something you don't want automated? BTW, thanks to Gregory for
> >>> the example (albeit strange) of the destructive this.close() call.
>Aaron --
> >>> For information about Netscape and Mozilla Accessibility projects, please
> >>> see the Access Mozilla
> >>> 
> <http://access-mozilla.sourceforge.net/><http://access-mozilla.sourcefor>> 
 > > ge.net> websit

Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
MC-574
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL  61820

Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248

E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu

WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund
WWW: http://www.w3.org/wai/ua

Received on Tuesday, 13 March 2001 11:11:03 UTC