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Raw minutes from 10 May 2001 UAWG teleconference

From: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 16:41:19 -0400
Message-ID: <3AFAFCEF.522D9F73@w3.org>
To: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
10 May 2001 UA Guidelines Teleconference

Agenda announcement:

Reference document 11 April 2001 Guidelines:

Minutes of previous meeting 3 May:

Next meetings:
 May 16 (extra), 17, 18 (extra)

 Jon Gunderson (Chair), Ian Jacobs (scribe), Harvey Bingham, 
 Jim Allan, Tim Lacy, Gregory Rosmaita, Mickey Quenzer,
 Rich Schwerdtfeger

Regrets: David Poehlman, Eric Hansen
Absent:  Denis Anson

Note: As of this call, I'm going to drop Charles McCathieNevile
as an active attendee of the teleconference.


Scheduling extra last call teleconfs:

  Wednesday, May 16: 2:00-4:30 EST
  Thursday, May 17th: 2:00-4:00 EST (regular meeting time)
  Friday, May 18th: 2:00-4:00 EST

  Wednesday, May 23th, 2:00-4:30 EST
  Thursday, May 24th: 2:00-4:00 (regular meeting time)
  Friday, May 25th: 1:00-3:30 EST

HB: I have a conflict on the Weds.
JG: I wish to move 18 May meeting to 2-4pm ET
JA: I'm out of town on the 18th anyway.
TL: I might have to leave early on the 18th
IJ: I'm ok with proposed schedule.
MQ: Shouldn't be a problem for me.


1) Comments resulting from review with Tantek Celik.
   (Refer also to Eric Hansen followup on these proposals. HB, MQ,
    and JG have skimmed proposals).

Part I:

1) "Start" events are more important than "End" events.

GR: If down produces a submenu, then I need to continue to drag
into the submenu.

IJ: The argument is that the user using manual triggering should
not have *more* than what the user of the device can do.

GR: I still need to hold the mouse down.


 - The simulation required by 1.2 does not exceed that which
   is possible with the native device.

2) Render according to spec. Do other checkpoints override this?


 - Accept proposal that other UAAG 1.0 requirements may 
   override 2.1 if the format specs otherwise forbid them.

 - Mention that configuration is a possibility here (break
   conformance to other spec / don't).

3) Checkpoint 2.2: Define text format more formally.


 - Adopt proposal to change checkpoint 2.2 to define exactly what
 we mean by text formats for this document (i.e., the minimal

4) Checkpoint 2.3: Scope of "alert" requirement.

IJ: Is this a global requirement or element-level? I would note
that if every page has conditional content, the alert message for
every resource is not very useful. It doesn't tell you anything

GR: I think that a global-only alert is not very useful.

IJ: Think of a links view of a document. One could also provide
a similar interface for conditional content.

MQ: It sounds like the minimal requirement is to make available
the list (possibly empty) of sources of conditional content.

IJ: People have also asked that 2.3 be broken down into simpler

IJ: My question is: is a menu sufficient (that some time can be

GR: What happens when I go through the conditional content menu,
then to the document, then back to the conditional content menu,
where do I start from? I probably want some persistence in that


 - No alert is necessary when conditional content is rendered as 
   part of sastisfying 2.3.

 - When required (for query approach), alert must be element

 (IJ notes that this breakdown may allow simplification of 2.3).


   - A global alert that then allows one to find out more would
     be useful.
   - The WG thinks that a "conditional content list" approach
     would satisfy the checkpoint.
   - Should be able to find one's place in context (in a "main"

GR: Check out JFW and Amaya for orientation between views,
possibly Opera too.

/* Tim leaves */

5) Configuration not required when the user agent always or
   never does something?

IJ: The question is: what are the accessibility issues
if some stuff is "always on".

MQ: E.g., I might want to be able to turn off captions otherwise
they will always be "in my way" (even when I don't want them).

/* Brief discussion of blink rate control */

IJ: We need to clarify whether configuration is also part of the
requirement (not just the functionality being configured).

GR: I think that applicability is relevant for 3.3.

IJ: I note then, that configuration is in most cases as important
as the functionality being configured. But I don't know whether
it's as important in all cases (where there is binary


6) Checkpoint 2.9: Automatic rendering of all conditional content
   at once required?

(First part)


 - Adopt proposal that "The user agent may satisfy checkpoint 2.9
 by allowing different configurations to render different types
 of conditional content automatically, possibly in different




7.GR: support for NOSCRIPT lynx longdesc - webspeak, HPR
JA: See minutes of previous meeting.


1.IJ: Edit the text of checkpoints 2.1, 2.2, 8.1, and 8.2 so that UAs 
are not required to conform for all formats that are implemented.
  Source: Minutes 19 April 2001 Teleconference

2.IJ: Make mention of animations, text streams, and refresh in the 
  Source: Minutes 19 April 2001 Teleconference

3.IJ: Coordinate usability testing of the guidelines (JRG volunteers to 
be one of the testers).
  Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2001JanMar/0137

4.CMN: Find out from SYMM WG whether repositioning of objects will 
appear in the spec (or should be in UAAG).
  Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2001JanMar/0357

5.RS: Send pointer to information about universal access gateway to 
 the WG.
  Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2001JanMar/0258

6.GR: Review event checkpoints for techniques

Status: Pending.

8.GR: write different markup (list of elements) that 2.9 applies to,
for clarification.

IJ: Refer to Techniques document!

9.GR: will send test pages to list
  Source: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2001/05/wai-ua-telecon-20010503.html

Status: Pending.

10.GR: Screen shot of Lynx for refresh, and redirect.

Status: Pending. Talk to JG/IJ offline.

12.MQ: Review techniques document to see whether adequate for
speech checkpoints.
Ian Jacobs (ij@w3.org)   http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs
Tel:                     +1 831 457-2842
Cell:                    +1 917 450-8783
Received on Thursday, 10 May 2001 16:41:27 UTC

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