- From: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:15:54 -0400
- To: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
- CC: w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
Charles McCathieNevile wrote: > > An event that doesn't cause a change need not be notified - I am thinking > about changes to the document (am I on the right tram here?). Yes, that's true. But furthermore, an event that doesn't cause a change in the UI need not be notified in the UI. > A change to the UI may not be obvious to somebody using a serial access mode > on a large document (50 characters opf braille doesn't give a very big > picture of 90 lines of document. And the UA guidelines are a fair bit longer > than 90 lines, as is the checklist. My browser does not work this way: let's say a script causes a change to something outside the viewport. I am not informed that there has been a change to content outside the viewport. Are you asking that changes to content outside a viewport be indicated to users with disabilities? - Ian > Charles McCN > > On Wed, 26 Jul 2000, Ian Jacobs wrote: > > Charles McCathieNevile wrote: > > > > I guess there is still an important issue of whether we require AT to access > > through an API. (Rich, I'm fishing for comment here <grin/>). If not, then > > producing the content through the UI is how the user is going to find out > > what happened. I thought we had a seperate checkpoint that required taht, adn > > the configuration was to allow the user to turn that off. > > No. Here's why: > > 1) Some events cause no change in the UI. For example, an executed > script > that does a calculation and changes content but does not change the > UI. > > 2) Other events cause changes to the UI. Since those changes are obvious > to a user of the native UI, we don't require the UA to provide > redundant indication of the change in the UI. > > 3) We require that all events be broadcast through an API. > > 4) We make accessibility requirements on the UI, such as checkpoint > 1.5, which requires that messages have text equivalents in the UI > that may be used by ATs. > > 5) No, we are not requiring that ATs do anything. > > - Ian > > > Charles MCN > > > > On Tue, 25 Jul 2000, Ian Jacobs wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > In the 7 July Guidelines [1], checkpoint 9.3 (Priority 3) reads: > > > > Allow the user to configure notification preferences for > > common types of content and viewport changes. > > Note: For example, allow the user to choose to be notified > > (or not) that a script has been executed, that > > a new viewport has been opened, that a pulldown menu has > > been opened, that a new frame has received focus, etc. > > > > 1) Since this checkpoint does not specify that it is about notification > > through an API (which is covered by checkpoint 5.5), our document > > says that this checkpoint refers to notification through the > > user interface. > > > > 2) Looking back at the history of the checkpoint > > (checkpoint 10.2 was introduced in the 9 July 1999 draft [3]), I > > believe that originally this requirement was supposed to apply to > > notification through an API and notification through the UI. > > Refer to 30 June 1999 discussion [4]. We dropped filters > > on the API notification at some point since applications can > > filter out whatever they wish. > > > > 3) If notification is to be provided through the UI, then by > > default all events would have to be indicated to the user. > > How would that work in practice? We have to address that > > question before we discuss how filtering will work. > > > > 4) If we try to identify a minimal set of events that are > > "common types of content and viewport changes", what > > would be in that set? We could use the information > > in the Note after the checkpoint, but that list is > > short and two of them are covered by other checkpoints: > > > > a) a script has been executed > > b) a viewport has been opened (but control over viewport opening > > is covered by checkpoint 4.16). > > c) a pulldown menu has been opened. > > d) a new frame has received focus (but control of focus > > change is covered by checkpoint 4.15). > > > > I would note that checkpoint 1.5 already requires that messages > > from the UA have text equivalents in the UI. > > > > 5) The techniques document [2] talks about frame techniques but mostly > > disabling notification of changes (on an element basis, for css > > properties, > > and for changing animations. In short, we don't have many techniques > > explaining what events should trigger notifications, nor how that > > information could be communicated to the user (e.g., through the > > status bar). > > > > 6) Who does notification through the UI benefit? For users with > > assistive technologies, we already require that all changes > > be sent through an API. What users using the UA's native > > UI benefit from notification of changes? > > > > I'm looking for answers to these questions to figure out what > > the minimal requirements for 9.3 are or whether we should delete it. > > I realize that notification is very important, but we should flesh > > this checkpoint out before we continue with it. > > > > - Ian > > > > [1] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-UAAG10-20000707/ > > [2] > > http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-UAAG10-TECHS-20000707/#tech-configure-change-notification > > [3] http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WAI-USERAGENT-19990709/ > > [4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/1999AprJun/0265.html > > -- > > Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org) http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs > > Tel: +1 831 457-2842 > > Cell: +1 917 450-8783 > > > > > > -- > > Charles McCathieNevile mailto:charles@w3.org phone: +61 (0) 409 134 136 > > W3C Web Accessibility Initiative http://www.w3.org/WAI > > Location: I-cubed, 110 Victoria Street, Carlton VIC 3053 > > Postal: GPO Box 2476V, Melbourne 3001, Australia > > -- > Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org) http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs > Tel: +1 831 457-2842 > Cell: +1 917 450-8783 > > > -- > Charles McCathieNevile mailto:charles@w3.org phone: +61 (0) 409 134 136 > W3C Web Accessibility Initiative http://www.w3.org/WAI > Location: I-cubed, 110 Victoria Street, Carlton VIC 3053 > Postal: GPO Box 2476V, Melbourne 3001, Australia -- Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org) http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs Tel: +1 831 457-2842 Cell: +1 917 450-8783
Received on Wednesday, 26 July 2000 11:16:06 UTC