- From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:19:35 -0400 (EDT)
- To: Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
- cc: thatch@us.ibm.com, w3c-wai-ua@w3.org
The short version... I propose we use the following wording for 7.2: Ensure the user can access all renderable content associated with an element chosen by the user. This includes element content in the strict XML sense, as well as content of element attributes which are intedned to be human-readable such as titles and alt values, but not machine-specific content such as the intended width of an image. In the longer version below, my comments are marked with CMN, Ian's with IJ, and Jim's original statements with JT On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Ian Jacobs wrote: thatch@us.ibm.com wrote: > > Ian, I am terrifically dense. CMN: Does that mean you don't float in a swimming pool? I don't float in a swimming pool, which is because I am somewhat denser than the average. Anyway... JT: > 7.2 seems to say "provide access > to content of an element that is selected." > > 7.2 For dependent user agents. Ensure that the user has > access to the content of an element selected by the user. > > You say that the intention is to allow the user to select and you go into detail > about selection process. The words of 7.2 certainly do not coincide with the > intention you described. IJ You're correct, so clarification will be necessary. and... I agree with Charles, who said on this thread: CMN > We want something like ensuring that the user can make all the > information provided for an element which is intended to be human-readable be > rendered. (for example there is not much necessity to render the width of a > frame, but it should be possible to get access to a title. IJ And then: CMN > I hope that someone can come up with some simpler wording which conveys the > idea. IJ I hope so too. CMN Hey Ian! That was supposed to be your cue to come up with something cool... IJ Just a word of background. One reason this checkpoint is here is to address access to table cell content on a cell-by-cell basis. Users should be able to select an element according to the document tree and ask a dependent user agent to render it. I believe that the first goal of this checkpoint was fine-grain control over structured access to content (to avoid, for example, problems exhibited by some older screen readers for multi-columns or side-by-side table cells). However, structured access is just one technique. Unstructured selection may also be desirable (e.g., text not strictly within a single element). The dependent user agent should still be able to render that selected content. More questions: Should the user only be allowed to select rendered content, wherever that content coments from? Or should the user also be able to select an element and ask for attribute values that haven't been rendered but are human readable? This could be very useful (to all users, actually), but I think it would not be obvious when combined with unstructured selection (which element do you mean if your selection spans two partially?). In my opinion discussion of structured and unstructured selection, presentation of attribute values, etc. belongs in the techniques document. The underlying requirement is that the user be able to select some part of the document (in a device-independent manner!) and ask a dependent user agent to render it. So, if "Ensure that the user has access to the content of an element selected by the user." is unclear, let's simplify to: "Allow the user to select a portion of the document for rendering (e.g., a particular element, part of an element, human-readable attribute value, etc.)" Then, in a more elaborate note after the checkpoint: "For instance, allow the user to identify a table cell with the selection and render the cell's content and (optionally) associated header information. Or, allow the user to select part of a paragraph for rendering. Or allow the user to select an element and request that the value of an attribute known to promote accessibility be rendered." - Ian -- Ian Jacobs (jacobs@w3.org) http://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs Tel/Fax: +1 212 684-1814 --Charles McCathieNevile mailto:charles@w3.org phone: +1 617 258 0992 http://www.w3.org/People/Charles W3C Web Accessibility Initiative http://www.w3.org/WAI MIT/LCS - 545 Technology sq., Cambridge MA, 02139, USA
Received on Thursday, 26 August 1999 23:19:44 UTC