RE: Focus onto control that only appears on focus?

My guess was it was sort of like the links on a github “markdown” document, where each heading has an invisible permalink on it. But looking at that now, those aren’t actually keyboard-focusable, just available on mouse hover or touchscreen tap. But only if you know where to look.

The more I think about it, the less convinced I am that it’s good UX. A skip link should be off-screen until focused, not simply zero-opacity. And a paragraph permalink should just be available to everybody. That said, I don’t know that there’s a WCAG violation here. It just seems… odd.

From: Taliesin Smith <talilief@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 05:37
To: Michael Livesey <mike.j.livesey@gmail.com>
Cc: Adam Cooper <cooperad@bigpond.com>; Jeremy Echols <jechols@uoregon.edu>; WAI Interest Group discussion list <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Focus onto control that only appears on focus?

Hi Michael and others,

I am coming late to this thread, and I am wondering if the question should be reframed?

For example, why does the element have zero opacity? What is the context of the zero opacity? Is the element a control?

Is the element supposed to be communicating a disabled state (case 1) or is meant to be hidden all together from everyone (case 2)?

In case 1, if the element is disabled, it should communicate that state in a way that is perceivable to everyone.
In case 2, if the element is completely hidden visually, and meant to be hidden all together, a visible focus event seems out of context, and if that focus event is not communicating a hidden or disabled state, I think there is a mismatch that should constitute a fail of some kind.

In the example of skip links, I would think the link’s focus outline should be accompanied by a visually displayed accessible name and with screen reader software the name and function would be spoken out loud, for example, “Skip to Main Content, link”.

I do not do these kinds of reviews, so I am not basing my opinion on experience with interpreting the guidelines, but in my humble opinion, a focus link is non-text content and according to 1.1.1
“If non-text content is a control or accepts user input, then it has a name<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/*dfn-name__;Iw!!C5qS4YX3!H2NgFqrLzfmEMWAVqIR7-K3ActuMZNJYSjxZGO_F5uXMO8GWGbuwkuFXMDa-LrwNOOMJ1CpH1rqgxs1YBlY$> that describes its purpose. (Refer to Success Criterion 4.1.2<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.w3.org/TR/WCAG22/*name-role-value__;Iw!!C5qS4YX3!H2NgFqrLzfmEMWAVqIR7-K3ActuMZNJYSjxZGO_F5uXMO8GWGbuwkuFXMDa-LrwNOOMJ1CpH1rqg2MaWlOs$> for additional requirements for controls and content that accepts user input.)”

I hope that is helpful.

Taliesin
~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~
Taliesin L. Smith
talilief@gmail.com<mailto:talilief@gmail.com>
taliesin.smith@colorado.edu<mailto:taliesin.smith@colorado.edu>

Inclusive Design Research Specialist
PhET Interactive Simulations
http://phet.colorado.edu/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/phet.colorado.edu/__;!!C5qS4YX3!H2NgFqrLzfmEMWAVqIR7-K3ActuMZNJYSjxZGO_F5uXMO8GWGbuwkuFXMDa-LrwNOOMJ1CpH1rqgupuv0Vw$>
Department of Physics
University of Colorado, Boulder






On Feb 13, 2024, at 00:12, Adam Cooper <cooperad@bigpond.com<mailto:cooperad@bigpond.com>> wrote:

Does tabbing/swiping elements with zero opacity work on all platforms? I seem to recall a browser not focusing elements with zero opacity when tabbing from the address bar … might be a flashback to IE.



From: Michael Livesey <mike.j.livesey@gmail.com<mailto:mike.j.livesey@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 8:25 AM
To: Jeremy Echols <jechols@uoregon.edu<mailto:jechols@uoregon.edu>>
Cc: WAI Interest Group discussion list <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: Focus onto control that only appears on focus?

Thanks, Jeremy,

Yes, I totally forgot about skip links good point.

Thanks.

On Monday, February 12, 2024, Jeremy Echols <jechols@uoregon.edu<mailto:jechols@uoregon.edu>> wrote:
> I think this is pretty common for skip links and paragraph permalinks a lot of sites use. I don’t know that it’s even bad UX, but for accessibility it is definitely *good*, even when it can be a little unexpected. Always-visible links that only help keyboard users would arguably be worse UX.
>
>
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> From: Michael Livesey <mike.j.livesey@gmail.com<mailto:mike.j.livesey@gmail.com>>
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 01:39
> To: WAI Interest Group discussion list <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
> Subject: Focus onto control that only appears on focus?
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I have a question about focusing onto a control that is opacity: 0 when not focused.
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> So you hit "Tab" and you are taken to a control that has opacity: 1 set on its :focus pseudo selector, thus it was invisible and it only appears on focus.
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> When focused, the control will have a focus ring.
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> I know this isn't ideal UX, but is this disallowed under any criteria please?
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> Thank you