Re: Question about restitution of aria-describedby

Thanks a lot for your answers Marc and Nick.

But I am still confused. I read the Accessible Name and Description 
Computation, §4.2 
<https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#mapping_additional_nd_description> 
and §4.3 <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/#mapping_additional_nd_te>, 
and I still don't see anything about the case where the description is 
properly hidden with aria-describedby or aria-hidden=true.

And when I read the description of aria-hidden attribute in the WAI-ARIA 
1.2 doc <https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.2/#aria-hidden>, it is clear 
that the hidden text is not supposed to be exposed to an accessibility API.

Does anyone have a specific doc about this case? It still appears to me 
as a bad practice to link a description to a text with aria-hidden=true 
or display:none. But it seems it works, so maybe it is supposed to be 
working. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Armony

Le 17/10/2023 à 11:08, Marc Haunschild a écrit :
> It also has a strong use case, that hidden text is not announced - so 
> you can switch it by changing the display property value with 
> JavaScript to control which (of several) texts should be read - for 
> example depending on user input - to name just one example. Especially 
> because we have CSS styles to effectively hide texts only visually. 
> For me this is a very inconsistent approach and I really hate it.
>
> But it is, like it is and that's how we have to use it...
>
> --
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
> Marc Haunschild - he / him - #gernPerDu
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>> Am 17.10.2023 um 10:43 schrieb Marc Haunschild (Accessibility 
>> Consulting) <marc.haunschild@accessibility.consulting>:
>>
>> Hi Armony,
>>
>> This behavior is typical for most (all?) screenreaders. I was also 
>> surprised when I heard that for the first time.
>>
>> I can’t remember which, but I think one SR-browser combination does 
>> not read the hidden texts and it’s considered a bug.
>>
>> You might want to check the computation of accname if you want to 
>> know more about the spec, if you’re not familiar with it. But as far 
>> as I remember it is not about hidden text. Maybe this is way sr 
>> behave the way they do:
>> Accessible Name and Description Computation 1.1 
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/>
>> w3.org <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/>
>>  <favicon.ico> <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/>
>>
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/accname-1.1/>
>>
>> --
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>>
>> Marc Haunschild
>> https://Accessibility.Consulting
>>
>>> Am 17.10.2023 um 10:36 schrieb Armony ALTINIER - Koena 
>>> <armony@koena.net>:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I have a question about how aria-describedby is supposed to be 
>>> rendered or not by screen readers.
>>>
>>> I'm submitting this test file (see attachement) with 3 cases:
>>>
>>>  1. text with aria-describedby is linked to non-hidden text
>>>  2. text with aria-describedby is linked to text hidden with aria-hidden
>>>  3. text with aria-descrivbedby is linked with text hidden with
>>>     display:none.
>>>
>>>
>>> In case 1, it is normal for the text to be rendered. It seems 
>>> strange to me that this also works on cases 2 and 3, whereas it 
>>> works fine with NVDA.
>>>
>>> Do you have any documentation about this behavior? Is it "normal"? 
>>> If so, I'm having trouble understanding the logic. If it's not 
>>> normal, and there are screen reader developers among you, I'd love a 
>>> little explanation of this choice (I'll go fishing for info 
>>> elsewhere if need be).
>>>
>>> Many thanks in advance for any insight and documentation :)
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Armony
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Portrait Armony Altinier
>>> LinkedIn Armony Altinier 
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/armonyaltinier/> Twitter Armony 
>>> Altinier <https://twitter.com/armonyaltinier>  Armony Altinier
>>> Fondatrice et Présidente | Koena
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>> <demo-aria-describedby-EN.html>
>
-- 
Portrait Armony Altinier
LinkedIn Armony Altinier <https://www.linkedin.com/in/armonyaltinier/> 
Twitter Armony Altinier <https://twitter.com/armonyaltinier>  Armony 
Altinier
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