RE: Heading and labels

Andrew,

 

As I said, the problem arises with the concept of ‘user interface component’ 

 

Unfortunately, the text of WCAG doesn’t do much to help with understanding what ‘user interface component’ means.

 

On the one hand, a UI component is defined normatively as “a part of the content that is perceived by users as a single control for a distinct function” while, on the other hand, "What is meant by "component" or "user interface component" here is also sometimes called "user interface element".

 

Which is to say the concept of UI component is at best ambiguous in WCAG as I’d argue that a table header is indeed a ‘user interface element” as used in common usage just as an icon is a ‘user interface element’ in this sense.

 

As Patrick suggests, perhaps this is an omission that can be corrected in the understanding documentation? 

 

In any case and in the meantime, however, I will continue to fail table headers using 2.4.6 when I determine by whatever means that they don’t describe topic or purpose as doing otherwise would feel perverse.

 

And we’ll just have to agree to disagree … ☺

 

Cheers,

Adam 

 

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 11:29 PM
To: Adam Cooper <cooperad@bigpond.com>
Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: Re: Heading and labels

 

Adam,

 

I thought WCAG was also intended to be ‘technology agnostic’ and therefore not restricted to defining concepts in the way that they may be defined in HTML … 

 

I don’t believe that I referenced HTML. Headings are the same concept that is used in PDF, and are also found in other technologies like DOCX, ODT, and surely others that I’m not thinking about right now.

 

there is no normative definition of ‘header’ or ‘heading’ that I can find in WCAG 2.x. In my view, it is a significant shortcoming of WCAG that common user interface components are not well-define or described as it may make this kind of discussion easier.

 

There isn’t a normative definition of header or heading in WCAG, but the fact that these terms are used differently in WCAG suggests that they are regarded as being different. In HTML, PDF, DOCX, ODT headings are defined as being distinct from table headers.

 

This is what I meant by ‘developer biases’ or the tendency to assume that something in a user interface has a nifty correlate with the technology used to implement it …  

 

a <label> is associated using the ‘for’ attribute, but this is a concept brought into being by HTML. A label is something that identifies something else … signifier and signified – the actual means by which this is achieved is specific to a web technology.

 

I completely agree. Because the working group knew that this would be an area of confusion for people thinking about the label element it was careful to define the term. A label in WCAG is defined as being used to identify a user interface component (also defined), and an individual table data cell (or row or column) is not a user interface component.

 

Also, if I understand you correctly, are you saying that a table header can contain text that is not related to either the content or context of the table in which it occurs (i.e., machine-generated)? 

 

Not exactly. A table header can have text that _is_ related to the content, but it isn’t describing the topic or purpose. If you have a table that is displaying data collected by an online form the table headers will do make sense for people who know what the header text represents. Larger data collection projects may require a data codebook to understand what the headings mean. 

 

AWK

 

 

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com> > 
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:18 AM
To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk <mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk> >; Adam Cooper <cooperad@bigpond.com <mailto:cooperad@bigpond.com> >; 'Tom Shaw' <Tom-Shaw@hotmail.com <mailto:Tom-Shaw@hotmail.com> >; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> 
Subject: Re: Heading and labels

 

I don’t believe that it was the intent to have table headers covered under 2.4.6. 

 

WCAG refers to “headings” when referring to h1-h6 section titles, and “headers” when referring to table header cells. I think that often table headers should be descriptive, but not always. If you have a table that is expressing data collected the table header may have text that is pretty obscure (e.g., “Data_usrnm_curr”) but is reflective of the data collection and/or storage system. 

 

If you want to make the argument that table headers are labels, I don’t believe that they meet the definition for a label because they are not used to identify a component, they are associated with content within just part of a table. (Label:  <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FWCAG21%2FUnderstanding%2Fheadings-and-labels.html%23dfn-text&data=05%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C76bafb9c97b84fd8ab4208daa03c2536%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637998477559341341%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=v8dPV13uaN9Fsak8%2FV44pNtiN6Pk4ubvfVSpb0n3%2BtI%3D&reserved=0> text or other component with a  <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FWCAG21%2FUnderstanding%2Fheadings-and-labels.html%23dfn-text-alternative&data=05%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C76bafb9c97b84fd8ab4208daa03c2536%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637998477559341341%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LGs%2Fkm9rkxiaKR9mG1ZIHGyPecB8jW9dkOEFHRHT1qM%3D&reserved=0> text alternative that is presented to a user to identify a component within Web  <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FWCAG21%2FUnderstanding%2Fheadings-and-labels.html%23dfn-content&data=05%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C76bafb9c97b84fd8ab4208daa03c2536%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637998477559341341%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Gr1AQjqkRIPKDGw%2FDeJCefaj3vxjMfHWLbIl%2BZ0PnOU%3D&reserved=0> content)

 

Thanks,

AWK

 

Andrew Kirkpatrick

Director, Accessibility

Adobe 

 

 <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com> akirkpat@adobe.com

 <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=05%7C01%7Cakirkpat%40adobe.com%7C76bafb9c97b84fd8ab4208daa03c2536%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637998477559341341%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mi6EzetE7iYP6HFad%2BsP8DEABZaEw%2FakW2HlPHYjebs%3D&reserved=0> http://twitter.com/awkawk

 

 

From: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk <mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk> >
Date: Monday, September 26, 2022 at 4:01 AM
To: Adam Cooper <cooperad@bigpond.com <mailto:cooperad@bigpond.com> >, 'Tom Shaw' <Tom-Shaw@hotmail.com <mailto:Tom-Shaw@hotmail.com> >, WAI-IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> >
Subject: RE: Heading and labels
Resent-From: WAI-IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> >
Resent-Date: Monday, September 26, 2022 at 3:55 AM

 

EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.

 

I agree with Adam’s assessment that a column heading is a label.

 

Steve Green

Managing Director

Test Partners Ltd

 

 

From: Adam Cooper <cooperad@bigpond.com <mailto:cooperad@bigpond.com> > 
Sent: 26 September 2022 04:24
To: 'Tom Shaw' <Tom-Shaw@hotmail.com <mailto:Tom-Shaw@hotmail.com> >; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> 
Subject: RE: Heading and labels

 

The Definition of label in the glossary is: "text or other component with a text alternative that is presented to a user to identify a component within Web content"

 

So I would say ‘yes’ … a column heading in a table labels the column and is therefore subject to 2.4.6 regardless of any developer biases about concepts like components … 

 

The issue with this success criterion is not its scope in my view, but how ‘describes topic or purpose’ can be evaluated … 

 

There is an inexplicable urge with web professionals to include as little text as possible in a user interface so topic or purpose may only become apparent to certain users with repetition and/or  explanation and/or context … 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Tom Shaw <Tom-Shaw@hotmail.com <mailto:Tom-Shaw@hotmail.com> > 
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 7:56 PM
To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> 
Subject: Heading and labels

 

Hi.

Are we saying that Table headers can be thought of as labels (or possibly headings) - as they are labelling the column? Therefore, if a table header is not descriptive or does not exactly describe the purpose of the data it represents that it could fail under 2.4.6 Headings and Labels (AA) ?

Thanks!

 

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