Re: Re: Question on Ins and Del - : Re: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader

Support for INS and DEL have been around for a while with JAWS and
NVDA and have now got better with Firefox and Chrome:
See http://mars.dequecloud.com/demo/example/Em-Strong-Del-InsTags.htm

In my opinion, browser / AT makers should be encouraged to add support
for native HTML elements and attributes when found lacking instead of
adding ARIA roles / attributes and suggesting they should support
those.
Best wishes,

Sailesh

On 3/17/20, alands289@gmail.com <alands289@gmail.com> wrote:
> Léonie.
>
>
>
> Thanks, this is very helpful.
>
>
>
> Alan Smith
>
>
>
> From: Léonie Watson
> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 5:21 PM
> To: alands289@gmail.com; Char Easter; Matt King; Phill Jenkins
> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org; Evan Cordulack
> Subject: Re: Question on Ins and Del - : Re: Or! - RE: Re: how to code
> strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>
>
> I haven't read through this thread, so apologies if this has already
>
> been mentioned, but the March update for Jaws 2020 adds support for
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> content marked up using the HTML <del> and <ins> elements [1]. Support
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> is in firefox and the Chromium browsers (new Edge, Brave, Yandex etc.)
>
> though not old Edge or IE.
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>
>
> Jaws uses a different voice to announce the start and end of the deleted
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> or inserted text. So for the following example Jaws says "Deletion",
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> "this has been deleted", "Deletion end".
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>
>
> <p>In this sentence <del>this text has been deleted</del> but not this
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> text.</p>
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>
>
> Similarly, in the following example Jaws announces "Insertion", "this
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> text has been inserted", "Insertion end".
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>
>
> <p>In this sentence <ins>this text has been inserted</ins> but this text
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> was here already.</p>
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>
>
> It's a very useful addition I think.
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>
>
>
>
> Léonie.
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>
> [1]
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> https://support.freedomscientific.com/Downloads/JAWS/JAWSWhatsNew#Enhancements
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>
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>
>
> On 17/03/2020 19:28, alands289@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Matt,
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>>
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>> I’m not quite clear on ins and del.
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>>
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>> Are these terms that will be announced for the strikethrough type
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>> annotation?
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>>
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>> If so, has it been tested with blind users to see if this properly
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>> communicates something that they will understand.
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>>
>
>> I have no understanding of what insert and delete mean.
>
>>
>
>> Alan Smith
>
>>
>
>> *From: *Char Easter <mailto:ceaster@seattletimes.com>
>
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 17, 2020 1:28 PM
>
>> *To: *Matt King <mailto:a11ythinker@gmail.com>; alands289@gmail.com
>
>> <mailto:alands289@gmail.com>; Phill Jenkins <mailto:pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
>
>> *Cc: *w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>; Evan Cordulack
>
>> <mailto:ecordulack@seattletimes.com>
>
>> *Subject: *Re: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>>
>
>> Thanks all for the input and quick action.
>
>>
>
>> *From: *Matt King <a11ythinker@gmail.com>
>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, March 4, 2020 at 10:20 AM
>
>> *To: *"alands289@gmail.com" <alands289@gmail.com>, 'Phill Jenkins'
>
>> <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>, Char Easter <ceaster@seattletimes.com>
>
>> *Cc: *"w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>
>> *Subject: *RE: Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>>
>
>> Scope of ARIA 1.3 includes new semantics related to annotations, which
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>> includes comments on revisions marked up with ins and del elements.
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>>
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>> As part of adding these semantics to ARIA 1.3, we will also draft
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>> guidance for the ARIA Authoring Practices and add canonical examples of
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>> implementations.
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>>
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>> After the APG Task Force has consensus on the example implementations,
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>> we will add screen reader tests for the semantics to the ARIA and
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>> Assistive Tehcnology  (aria-at) project.
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>>
>
>> So, by end of year, we should have an end-to-end understanding of any
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>> gaps in this space and a clear path to full support.
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>>
>
>> Side note: testing of implied ARIA semantics in native HTML is on the
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>> 2021 roadmap for aria-at. However, ins and del will certainly get
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>> covered by the annotations work, which should all happen this year.
>
>>
>
>> Matt
>
>>
>
>> *From:* alands289@gmail.com <alands289@gmail.com>
>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 3, 2020 6:22 PM
>
>> *To:* Phill Jenkins <pjenkins@us.ibm.com>; Char Easter
>
>> <ceaster@seattletimes.com>
>
>> *Cc:* w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>
>> *Subject:* Or! - RE: Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>>
>
>> Or!
>
>>
>
>> Generally, we should make our elements communicate to “all”.
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>>
>
>> Your points are all good.
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>>
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>> If there is a known limitation then as those that strive to support
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>> accessibility it is our job to make things work for screen reader users
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>> or any other disability type if there is a know limitation that does
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>> have a solution.
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>>
>
>> I’m not aware of a JAWS bug for a lack of supporting strike-through or
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>> the other styles you mentioned.
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>>
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>> Not everything will be supported by screen readers, so we have to have a
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>> method to make it work.
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>>
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>> Also, there are many other screen readers besides JAWS that we must
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>> support as well.
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>>
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>> None that I know of announce the strike-through.
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>>
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>> I’ve found a way that works and have communicated it to countless
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>> clients and they all seem happy with my suggested fix.
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>>
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>> Its just one of the values of years of experience that we can acquire
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>> solutions to problems and share them with others to make them successful.
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>>
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>> For those that use strike-through, once they know a way to make it work,
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>> they just add it to their own company design documentation or library
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>> and they have a solution that they can use.
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>>
>
>> Regards,
>
>>
>
>> Alan Smith
>
>>
>
>> *From: *Phill Jenkins <mailto:pjenkins@us.ibm.com>
>
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 3, 2020 6:32 PM
>
>> *To: *alands289@gmail.com <mailto:alands289@gmail.com>; Char Easter
>
>> <mailto:ceaster@seattletimes.com>
>
>> *Cc: *w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
>
>> *Subject: *Re: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>>
>
>> What?
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>> generally, we should *not* be hacking things just for screen readers.
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>> Did anyone ask the screen reader developers if they support
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>> strike-through? ask about *super-script*, /sub-script, italics, etc.
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>> /while you're asking.
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>>
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>> If it isn't supported by the screen reader, then its a screen reader
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>> bug! that needs to be fixed / supported.
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>>
>
>> but I believe it is supported via a user setting. For example, See
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>> JAWS Techniques for Examining Text Formatting
>
>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoccenter.freedomscientific.com%2Fdoccenter%2Fdoccenter%2Frs25c51746a0cc%2F2012-06-20_textformatting%2F02_textformatting.htm&data=02%7C01%7Cceaster%40seattletimes.com%7Ce60ad63c06864be0a66608d7c068b52e%7Cfc2b8476b7f0473d82fbe0a89fd99855%7C0%7C0%7C637189428258107898&sdata=hN6qkXo753hJrL62j8ibrLUOV88inOpV%2BjIRjpA%2FBxk%3D&reserved=0>
>
>>
>
>> However, I'm not sure JAWS supports styling like
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>> "text-decoration:line-through" because it may not really be a text
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>> attribute.
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>>
>
>>  From 2005, a thread said:
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>> Now, with my settings on "attributes", my JAWS is also reading
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>> "strikethrough".
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>> If this is not clear, or what you get is not what you expected, please
>
>> consult your help for JAWS.
>
>> ___________
>
>> Regards,
>
>> Phill Jenkins
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Inactive hide details for ---03/03/2020 05:08:32 PM---Char, That is a
>
>> very interesting question. Here is what I do that wor---03/03/2020
>
>> 05:08:32 PM---Char, That is a very interesting question. Here is what I
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>> do that works great. On the product
>
>>
>
>> From: <alands289@gmail.com <mailto:alands289@gmail.com>>
>
>> To: Char Easter <ceaster@seattletimes.com
>
>> <mailto:ceaster@seattletimes.com>>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>
>> <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>>
>
>> Date: 03/03/2020 05:08 PM
>
>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
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>> Char,
>
>>
>
>> That is a very interesting question.
>
>>
>
>> Here is what I do that works great.
>
>>
>
>> On the product pages with strikethrough text, strikethrough text is not
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>> announced by screen readers. Therefore, non-visual users will not have
>
>> communicated to them that the original price is no longer valid and thus
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>> “striked through”. The text will need further coding.
>
>> How is this a problem:
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>> Non-visual users will not understand what the two different prices mean
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>> when the screen reader announces them. This may be during a read all of
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>> the page, a virtual read of the text or text announced from a link.
>
>> How to fix:
>
>> Add a span before the strike through amount with the words original
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>> price (or equivalent term). Have the span be your supported
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>> visuallyhidden class so it does not show on the screen.
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>> <span class=""visuallyhidden"">Original price</span>
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>> <span style=""text-decoration: line-through"">$70.00</span>
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>>
>
>> I hope this helps.
>
>>
>
>> Alan Smith
>
>>
>
>> *From: *Char Easter <mailto:ceaster@seattletimes.com>*
>
>> Sent: *Tuesday, March 3, 2020 5:31 PM*
>
>> To: *w3c-wai-ig@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>*
>
>> Subject: *how to code strikethroughs for a screenreader
>
>>
>
>> Hello,
>
>>
>
>> Is there a way a screen reader can read a strikethrough on text so a
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>> screen reader user can interpret the meaning/intent?
>
>>
>
>> Thanks,
>
>>
>
>> *Char Easter*
>
>> UX Designer at The Seattle Times
>
>> p: 206.464.2945
>
>> e: ceaster@seattletimes.com <mailto:ceaster@seattletimes.com>
>
>> m: 206.779.2427
>
>>
>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Director @TetraLogical
>
>


-- 
Sailesh Panchang
Principal Accessibility Consultant
Deque Systems Inc
381 Elden Street, Suite 2000, Herndon, VA 20170
Mobile: 571-344-1765

Received on Wednesday, 18 March 2020 14:36:46 UTC