RE: Short Survey for CSUN

Hi Karen,

You are mixing up a whole load of different things, so let's deal with them one at a time.

JavaScript is an accessibility supported technology, but it needs to be implemented correctly. If it isn't, the website could violate many WCAG success criteria, of which keyboard operation is only one.

Elinks is not "JavaScript friendly" and you should not be using it. It only ever had partial JavaScript support. The last stable release was ten years ago and development has essentially stopped. There have been no changes at all since 2017. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELinks and https://repo.or.cz/elinks.git


The JavaScript specification is continuously updated, so older browsers will not support new changes. The specification is actually ECMAScript, and it's got nothing to do with Google.

The JavaScript on the button responds to various events, such as "click" and "mousedown", but these are not implemented by means of the usual onClick and onMousedown event handlers. I can't work out exactly how it works, but I am not entirely surprised it doesn't work with some less-capable browsers. Most people would still consider it to be compliant because the button is keyboard accessible with Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer and Edge. These are all available free, so if you choose to use an out of date browser with incomplete JavaScript support, WCAG takes the view that that is your problem. Is there any reason why you cannot use a modern browser?

The reason I say the coding is stupid, is that WCAG states that native elements should be used where possible. Likewise, it is best practice to use the simplest solution. A button or input element would do the job perfectly well using far less coding, and there is absolutely no reason to use JavaScript in this case.

Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net> 
Sent: 17 February 2020 22:14
To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>
Cc: Eric Eggert <ee@w3.org>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Subject: RE: Short Survey for CSUN

Hi Steve,
My understanding is that JavaScript is a compliant technology, so long as it works from the keyboard.
Perhaps your comment that it was done in a stupid fashion  illustrates that point.
You referenced in browsers, and reference with Jaws, adaptive technology that i cannot physically use..which sort of illustrates my understanding that design is not about tool, but interaction.
I am now interested in how the standard of readily available or free works here, since each person is working with the specifics of  their physical situation to accommodate.
therefore, the only that I personally see that such a theory works in practice  is if one assumes that  tools work the same for everyone sharing a label  which is clearly not the case.
Even in JavaScript friendly browsers like elinks, with JavaScript  turned on, the button still does not work.
I understand from Google accessibility that JavaScript means their definition of JavaScript, which may or may not be functional..or especially privacy respectful either for that matter.
If the technique for that button is stupid as you say, and the implementation of JavaScript work from the keyboard, how is it compliant?
Like any language, JavaScript is not the same in all instances when used.
kare



On Mon, 17 Feb 2020, Steve Green wrote:

> Hi Karen,
>
> I don't understand what point you are making regarding voice synthesis. What is the relevance in respect to the button not working for you?
>
> JavaScript is an "accessibility supported technology" as defined in WCAG 2.1. The theory is that there is no reason why users should not be using accessibility supported technologies because they are widely available and free or inexpensive. Why do you choose to turn JavaScript off?
>
> The button works fine with JAWS screen reader and there is no reason why it would not work with other assistive or adaptive technologies as long as JavaScript is enabled.
>
> FWIW, it's stupid to code a button the way it has been done on that website, but it is still WCAG compliant.
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net>
> Sent: 17 February 2020 20:31
> To: Steve Green <steve.green@testpartners.co.uk>
> Cc: Eric Eggert <ee@w3.org>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Short Survey for CSUN
>
> Hi Steve,
>  That's wonderful to hear for you.
> still, what happened to the idea of realizing that not everyone sharing a label accommodates the same?
> The voice synthesis required for chrome and Firefox, stimulates the dizzy centres of my brain due to an auditory processing disorder.
> However,  like a well built  highway, I should still be able to reach the survey.
> Unfortunately though, as documented in one of their blog posts, Google feels anyone who chooses to work  for example without JavaScript is a crook, their word not mine.
> I am amazed  how often even those here, unintentionally I realize, forget that before you reach the browser, just as before you reach a building's front steps, there are fundamental  aspects.
> I wonder how that works for example with a voice browser, or an augmented keyboard?
> Kare
>
>
>
> On Mon, 17 Feb 2020, Steve Green wrote:
>
>> The Next button works for me in Chrome and Firefox, both with the Enter key and spacebar. The code looks ok too.
>>
>> What browser are you using?
>>
>> Steve Green
>> Managing Director
>> Test Partners Ltd
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net>
>> Sent: 17 February 2020 19:39
>> To: Eric Eggert <ee@w3.org>
>> Cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: Short Survey for CSUN
>>
>> ..take this survey how exactly?
>> The next button does not work from  my keyboard, although the other links
>> are   active.
>> Is the survey strictly for those who can click a mouse?
>> Cheers,
>> Karen
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 17 Feb 2020, Eric Eggert wrote:
>>
>>> Hello WAI-IG,
>>>
>>> Wilco Fiers (https://twitter.com/wilcofiers) and I
>>> (https://twitter.com/yatil) are preparing a (hopefully!) fun quiz 
>>> session for CSUN this year (Thursday, 8am).
>>>
>>> You can help by filling out the following survey (25 one-word answers):
>>> https://forms.gle/PfVdUL4aPpK5tpjq8

>>>
>>> We will relate the answers to Accessibility in the EU – but you 
>>> don’t need to be in Europe or know about accessibility here to answer!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Wilco & Eric
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Received on Tuesday, 18 February 2020 00:09:39 UTC