Re: PDFs and WCAG 2.4.5

Thank you both for the answers so far.

I should have been more clear about the fact that the sitemap was simply an
example.
I should also have searched this mailing list it's history before asking
this question as I have asked almost the same question as Michèlle van
Vlerken asked last year. However she never really received a clear answer
it would seem to me.

Our question is: Is it the intend of the SC that every PDF can be found in
two ways like HTML pages and if so, is there currently a website that
complies with that intent?

Chaals McCathie mentioned "I believe the purpose was to support navigation
through "strict hierarchy", and by search. In a public web site that can be
indexed by a search engine this is trivial." and Jonathan Avila answers "So
it sounds like SC 2.4.5 can be met by using external search engines"

Which suggests that all public websites automatically comply to SC 2.4.5
(unless they stop crawlers) simply because external non-embedded search
engines exist (for example: google), but I don't think this is the case as
we cannot be sure that these external search engine comply with WCAG.

@Sean: Within the PDF itself the table of content and the bookmarks would
indeed be two ways to reach every chapter within the PDF. But the SC
doesn't demand that chapters within web page can be reached in two ways,
only that web pages themselves can be reached in two ways, so technique
PDF2 always struck me as kind of silly as it doesn't help to comply with
the SC. In fact, the working group agreed in October last year (as a
response to the question raised by Michèlle) to make the technique advisory
instead (which makes a lot of sense, as it is still a very good idea to add
bookmarks).

Thanks again for reading,

Brian Bors

2017-10-11 7:03 GMT+02:00 Sean Murphy (seanmmur) <seanmmur@cisco.com>:

> Brian,
>
>
>
> When I review the Sc’s, the SiteMap could have a link to each specific PDF
> document from the web page, a search functionality and you have fulfilled
> the requirement. In the actual PDF, the table of content is one method and
> the bookmarks is the second method to fulfil this sc. I don’t think the SC
> is expecting a link to each specific chapter within a PDF document. As how
> would the user be able to jump to a specific chapter from a link?
>
>
>
>
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> *From:* Brian Bors [mailto:b.bors@accessibility.nl]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 10 October 2017 8:54 PM
> *To:* w3c WAI List <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
> *Subject:* PDFs and WCAG 2.4.5
>
>
>
> Hello mailing list,
>
> We were wondering about WCAG 2.0 SC 2.4.5 and PDF's. The SC demands more
> than 1 way to reach every web page. In the definition WCAG uses a PDF is a
> web page.
>
> According to our strict interpretation this means that all the PDF's
> should be mentioned in the sitemap when a sitemap is chosen as the second
> way.
>
> Is this the intend of this SC?
>
> Technique PDF2 suggests bookmarks within PDF's are the way to meet this
> SC, but this doesn't seem to be the case as bookmarks point to chapters
> within a PDF, not PDF's itself. This would suggest it is not the intend of
> the SC to demand links to every PDF.
>
> So, what is the correct interpretation?
>
> Greetings,
> Brian Bors
>
> *Accessibility Expert*
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