RE: non-landmark forms

I'm reading contradicting statements in this thread, can someone point me 
to a page that has both 
        HTML form without aria role="form",
        and a aria role="form".
so it can be tested with JAWS, NVDA, and various browsers such as Chrome 
and Firefox? 

what is in the spec and what is implemented and what is desired can often 
be three different things.  So I'm trying to understand all three 
regarding this topic of forms and landmarks/regions. 
___________
Regards,
Phill Jenkins
pjenkins@us.ibm.com
Senior Engineer & Accessibility Executive
IBM Research Accessibility
linkedin.com/in/philljenkins/
ibm.com/able
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twitter.com/IBMAccess
ageandability.com



From:   ALAN SMITH <alands289@gmail.com>
To:     Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@levelaccess.com>, Taliesin Smith 
<talilief@gmail.com>, "tink@tink.uk" <tink@tink.uk>
Cc:     Tobias Bengfort <tobias.bengfort@posteo.de>, WAI IG 
<w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Date:   08/02/2017 09:31 AM
Subject:        RE: non-landmark forms



Please be aware that you can use an HTML <form> without an aria 
role=?form? and this area will still be a Form region which is also 
translated ?landmark?. 
 
Therefore, it can be without an explicit ARIA form role attribute and it 
would still be a region or landmark form.
 
 
Alan Smith
 
From: Jonathan Avila
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 10:16 AM
To: Taliesin Smith; tink@tink.uk
Cc: Tobias Bengfort; WAI IG
Subject: RE: non-landmark forms
 
In Tobias?s case using the form element without an explicit 
aria-labelledby attribute, or without an explicit aria form role 
attribute, would keep the form as a non-landmark form?
 
That is correct.
 
Jonathan
 
Jonathan Avila
Chief Accessibility Officer
Level Access, inc. (formerly SSB BART Group, inc.)
(703) 637-8957
Jon.avila@levelaccess.com
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From: Taliesin Smith [mailto:talilief@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2017 9:57 AM
To: tink@tink.uk
Cc: Tobias Bengfort <tobias.bengfort@posteo.de>; WAI IG 
<w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Subject: Re: non-landmark forms
 
Hi Léonie,
 
So just to be clear so that I understand, too.
In Tobias?s case using the form element without an explicit 
aria-labelledby attribute, or without an explicit aria form role 
attribute, would keep the form as a non-landmark form?
 
I was looking at the ARIA Landmark exmples for ARIA Practices 1.1
 
Taliesin
On Aug 2, 2017, at 06:22, Léonie Watson <tink@tink.uk> wrote:
 
The form role only becomes a landmark when it's explicitly applied. Using 
the <form> element maps the form role implicitly, but does not turn every 
form into a landmark. I believe that's what you want in this situation.

-- 
@LeonieWatson @tink@toot.cafe tink.uk Carpe diem