- From: Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
- Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 02:36:03 +0100
- To: Karen Lewellen <klewellen@shellworld.net>, Nigel Peck <np.lists@sharphosting.uk>
- Cc: "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Karen, this list is not the right place for this discussion. You have a problem with PayPal, you asked for possible contact details/leads. Fine. The rest of this entire thread is completely irrelevant to the thousands of people subscribed to this list, particularly when you start discussing the merits of what an employee of a company may or may not do in their spare time. Feel free to carry on the discussion off-list, Could we please get some moderators to pipe up? P On 06/05/2017 02:23, Karen Lewellen wrote: > I am sorry Nigel, > My effort is not to engage in which hunting. Instead My desire remains > to share with those on this list engaged in insuring companies understand > the importance of wacg 2.0 that a major company Paypal is ignoring > such practices with a seeming figurehead engaged for the accessibility > role. > I have not found Patrick's post. > Still, as Rachel noted the goal is to discover how paypal makes its > products and services accessible. Ms. O'Connor is the living > personification of Paypal's accessibility commitment. > Personally if she had posted here, I would feel very differently about > both paypal, and herself. > Karen > > > On Fri, 5 May 2017, Nigel Peck wrote: > >> >> This is starting to sound more like a witch hunt than an attempt to >> get changes made at PayPal. Her choice of how to spend her time away >> from work is not in any way relevant to this discussion. Please stop >> this, and as Patrick has already suggested, bring this topic to a >> close on this list. >> >> On 05/05/2017 19:29, Karen Lewellen wrote: >>> Please tell me that is a joke? >>> Perhaps this illustrates how seriously she takes her commitment to her >>> job description at Paypal? >>> Indeed not only do those not mix well, they do not belong in the >>> same...context? >>> Does Ms. O'Connor have a supervisor? surely someone staffed her in >>> this >>> position? >>> I prefer to think paypal is not intentionally treating this issue >>> with >>> such an interesting mixed dictionary. >>> Karen >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 5 May 2017, Gordon Potter wrote: >>> >>> > She touts herself as a part-time Zumba instructor right next to >>> being a >>> > usability / accessibility engineer for PayPal. What up with >>> that?? > Those >>> > don't match very well. >>> > > On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Karen Lewellen > >>> <klewellen@shellworld.net> >>> > wrote: >>> > > > Who said anything about voice over? >>> > > In the Ubuntu shell environment, using the only browser paypal >>> allows > > me >>> > > to use now, elinks, <all others present an image verification >>> test> > > the >>> > > button says harmless. the spacebar takes me to the next page. >>> > > While it is fine the bugs have been filed, I am deeply >>> concerned how > > that >>> > > happened in the first place? >>> > > what is Paypal's *direct* process for customers experiencing > >>> > disabilities >>> > > to inform Ms.O'Connor of issues before they become so critical? >>> > > Her Linkedin profile describes her job as insuring paypal goods and >>> > > services are usable by people with all abilities...and she does >>> this > > how >>> > > without talking to them? >>> > > Karen >>> > > <who has a laundry list of such issues from a w3c standpoint, >>> and > > notjust >>> > > of her own.> >>> > > > > > > > > On Tue, 2 May 2017, Maraikayar Prem Nawaz wrote: >>> > > > > Apologies. Yes, Bugs have been filed with respective teams. >>> > > > Voiceover speaks it as Button. So for now, could you try >>> activating > > > PayNow >>> > > > button with spacebar instead of enter key? >>> > > > Sample invoice: >>> > > > >>> https://www.paypal.com/invoice/payerView/details/INV2-FUZ2-K4T7-JJTT-8SU2 >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Nigel >>> Peck > > > <np.lists@sharphosting.uk> >>> > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > > The Tweet I was referring to is one earlier in >>> the thread you > > > > suggested >>> > > > > Karen and I get involved in (which I just did). Specifically >>> this > > > > one >>> > > > > where >>> > > > > Bill said: >>> > > > > > > > > "Yep. There are people that have been engaged on >>> this a few days > > > > back. >>> > > > > Thanks." >>> > > > > > > > > >>> https://twitter.com/billwscott/status/858072965232996352 >>> > > > > > > > > Thanks, >>> > > > > Nigel >>> > > > > > > > > On 01/05/2017 20:37, Thierry Koblentz wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > I think Nigel is talking about this tweet from her: >>> > > > > > https://twitter.com/cagocon/status/858325552142221312 >>> > > > > > I think best would be to reply to her and CC (mention) >>> Bill > > > > > Scott as I >>> > > > > > did. >>> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Thierry Koblentz >>> > > > > > Sent with Airmail >>> > > > > > > > > > > On May 1, 2017 at 18:31:59, Karen Lewellen > > > >>> > > (klewellen@shellworld.net >>> > > > > > <mailto:klewellen@shellworld.net>) wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > > I am not a member of twitter...although I read >>> your answers > > > > > there. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > I like you hope that is a bot, because not >>> being able to read > > > > > > a >>> > > > > > > discussion, >>> > > > > > > does not hold water. >>> > > > > > > I did not notice Ms O'Connor taking part in that thread >>> > > > > > > either. >>> > > > > > > I feel sure this is not the conversation Nigel spoke of >>> where > > > > > > someone >>> > > > > > > indicated action? >>> > > > > > > Kare >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 1 May 2017, Thierry >>> Koblentz wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Karen, Nigel, >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you hear anything from PayPal >>> regarding this Karen? >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you should get >>> involved in this thread: >>> > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/AskPayPal/status/858805209736257536 >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Thierry Koblentz >>> > > > > > > > Sent with Airmail >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 1, 2017 at 11:06:27, Nigel Peck > >>> > > > > > > (np.lists@sharphosting.uk >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:np.lists@sharphosting.uk>) wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you hear >>> anything from PayPal regarding this Karen? One > > > > > > > of the >>> > > > > > > > responses on Twitter appears to suggest that they're >>> doing > > > > > > > something >>> > > > > > > > about it, would be good to know if that's the case. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nigel >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 26/04/2017 21:19, Karen Lewellen wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh most certainly, I have spoken to >>> several customer > > > > > > > > support >>> > > > > > > > > representatives and supervisors. >>> > > > > > > > > The amazing thing is how many tell me that >>> > > > > > > > > 1, they have no one to report accessibility related >>> > > > > > > > > issues, have >>> > > > > > > > > never >>> > > > > > > > > heard of ms O'Connor, and that Paypal has no >>> dedicated > > > > > > > > staff who are >>> > > > > > > > > responsible for access. >>> > > > > > > > > and >>> > > > > > > > > 2, customer service no longer has direct contact >>> with > > > > > > > > technical >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > support >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > either, there is an e-mail process but >>> this has no assurance > > > > > > > that the >>> > > > > > > > > issue is actually addressed. >>> > > > > > > > > These changes sliding further and further away from >>> > > > > > > > > inclusion have >>> > > > > > > > > been happening in stages for a couple of years now >>> at > > > > > > > > least. >>> > > > > > > > > I feel sure there is an entire file full of customer >>> > > > > > > > > service contacts >>> > > > > > > > > on my Canadian account, more than one on the >>> American > > > > > > > > side, with a >>> > > > > > > > > laundry list of wacg 2.0 related problems >>> > > > > > > > > Did your kindly listening in sources say otherwise >>> then > > > > > > > > what I am >>> > > > > > > > > presenting here? >>> > > > > > > > > Kare >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 27 Apr 2017, >>> lists@srinivasu.org > > > > > > > > <mailto:lists@srinivasu.org >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you reach out to >>> customer support? Being a former > > > > > > > > PayPal >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > employee, >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > my experience is that Customer Support >>> always work with > > > > > > > right team >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ensures your concern is addressed in best >>> possible way. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BCC: some colleagues from PayPal. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, >>> > > > > > > > > > Srinivasu Chakravarthula >>> > > > > > > > > > +91-9900810881 >>> > > > > > > > > > Sent on my phone. Excuse typos, if any. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 27-Apr-2017, at 03:46, Karen >>> Lewellen > > > > > > > > > <klewellen@shellworld.net >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> <mailto:klewellen@shellworld.net>> >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not on twitter, I am a >>> paypal customer. Wonder > > > > > > > > > > why she has no >>> > > > > > > > > > > contact via the place where she makes sure >>> paypal > > > > > > > > > > goods and >>> > > > > > > > > > > services are usable by people of all abilities? >>> > > > > > > > > > > Smiles. Perhaps I can find someone active to ask >>> some > > > > > > > > > > pointed >>> > > > > > > > > > > questions of her via social media. >>> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, >>> > > > > > > > > > > Karen >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, >>> 26 Apr 2017, Nigel Peck wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> She has a Twitter account at: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/cagocon >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And is presenting at >>> FluentConf in June (according > > > > > > > > > > > to her Tweets) >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > she seems very much real. Perhaps try >>> contacting her through >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Twitter? >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 25/04/2017 12:52, >>> Karen Lewellen wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > A while back when I first started sharing >>> new > > > > > > > > > > > > access issues with >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > paypal, >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > someone suggested I discover the person > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > responsible for >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > accessibility >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > there. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a name, a linked-in profile, even a >>> job > > > > > > > > > > > > description. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > However none >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > of the at least 25 Paypal supervisors with >>> whom i > > > > > > > > > > > > have had >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussions >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over the past several months, know >>> her, or can reach her > > > > > > > > if a >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > customer is >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > meeting with an accessibility issue. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > My latest? The previously functional from >>> the > > > > > > > > > > > > keyboard button on >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > invoice >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > forms labeled pay now, is coded as harmless. >>> Doing > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing when >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > using an >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > enter key in elinks. a browser that is more >>> java > > > > > > > > > > > > script friendly >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > others like links or certainly lynx, all >>> of which are > > > > > > > distributed >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > in Linux >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > packages like Ubuntu. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > I will place her information below. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathy-o-connor-407a56 >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Cathy O'Connor >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Program Manager, Accessibility at PayPal >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Program Manager, >>> Accessibility >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > PayPal >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > November 2014 ~V Present )|PayPal >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keeping PayPal >>> products and services accessible to > > > > > > > > > > > > people >>> of all >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > abilities. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Make sure product managers, designers and > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > developers understand >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > why accessibility is important by using > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > simulations and assistive >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > technology to gain first-hand experience of >>> how > > > > > > > > > > > > people use >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > computers differently in our accessibility > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > showcase. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Provide consulting, training and tools to >>> make it > > > > > > > > > > > > as easy as >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > possible for teams to design, develop and >>> deliver > > > > > > > > > > > > products that >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > can be used by as many people as possible. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given her job >>> description, why is there no way to > > > > > > > > > > > > report the >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > issues she >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > is paid to address? Granted the simulations >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > sentence concerns me, >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > reading >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > a bit like pretending to experience a >>> disability. > > > > > > > > > > > > I find it >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > difficult to >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > understand how someone could secure this job >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > knowing noting of... >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > www.w3c.org/wai <http://www.w3c.org/wai> >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone know if she is a real person? >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Karen >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> >> >> > -- Patrick H. Lauke www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
Received on Saturday, 6 May 2017 01:36:41 UTC