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Re: Names for ARIA menu and menubar

From: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 17:36:44 -0400
Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP627C984968E20471B3D1E8FE550@phx.gbl>
To: "Batusic, Mario" <mario.batusic@fabasoft.com>
CC: ALAN SMITH <alands289@gmail.com>, "w3c-wai-ig@w3.org" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Menu is not well supported currently, and it's not really been a success so
far, I'd say...
If you want to make that <nav> receive keyboard focus I'd use tabindex ...

Role=application on body is super ambitious and asking for tons of buggy
behaviour I'd say. It's the wild west still with aria and apps etc...

Cheers,
David MacDonald



*Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
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On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 1:48 AM, Batusic, Mario <mario.batusic@fabasoft.com>
wrote:

> Hi David,
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for testing and improving my code snippet. This improvement
> hack with <nav> around helps a bit if you use menu in a web page
> environment, though, but tabbing only you don’t get the name set on the
> <nav> through aria-label either: NVDA reads also here only the name of the
> submenu in focus. My problem is doubled through our approach to make a pure
> single-page web app putting role=application on the <body> tag. In this
> apporoach the landmarks are useles because in the form mode the screen
> reader user has no virtual cursor at his/her disposal.
>
>
>
> But in my understandnig of ARIA, Screen readers must announce a menu or
> menubar’s name set by author by aria-label at entering the menu. That is
> the same as announcing a toolbar’s name—something thea works.
>
>
>
> Ciao     Mario
>
>
>
> *Von:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 14. Juni 2016 17:00
> *An:* Batusic, Mario <mario.batusic@fabasoft.com>
> *Cc:* ALAN SMITH <alands289@gmail.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> *Betreff:* Re: Names for ARIA menu and menubar
>
>
>
> Thanks for the explanation... that is ambitious... and a lot of work
> <smile>.
>
>
>
> I actually quite like the home menu on your web site, with tab key
> operating the upper row, and enter/spacebar to open the menu, meanwhile
> mouse users get the menu on hover.
>
>
>
> It's a little unorthodox, not to do the same thing on focus as on mouse
> hover, but wait for the key activation instead, but I think it makes sense
> in this situation. Perhaps some for the aria team would want to see the
> arrow keys engaged, but I'm not sure in this situation it would make it
> more accessible.
>
>
>
> Anyway
>
> I wrapped it in a <nav aria-label="service"> and it seems to work fine.
>
>
>
> http://www.davidmacd.com/test/label-on-menu.html
>
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel:  613.235.4902
>
> LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
> twitter.com/davidmacd
>
> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>
> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>
>
>
> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>
> *            Including those with disabilities*
>
>
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 9:29 AM, Batusic, Mario <
> mario.batusic@fabasoft.com> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
>
>
> The whole app is a single-page web application, that means, we get the
> look and feel of a desktop GUI also for the blind users. They (better we,
> because I am also blind) can use the application similar as the Windows
> Explorer and can forget that we use a browser. Browser is here only kind of
> operating system.
>
>
>
> Ciao     Mario
>
>
>
> *Von:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 14. Juni 2016 15:22
> *An:* Batusic, Mario <mario.batusic@fabasoft.com>
> *Cc:* ALAN SMITH <alands289@gmail.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> *Betreff:* Re: Names for ARIA menu and menubar
>
>
>
> Hey Mario
>
>
>
> Why is there an Application role on the <body> tag?
>
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel:  613.235.4902
>
> LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
> twitter.com/davidmacd
>
> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>
> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>
>
>
> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>
> *            Including those with disabilities*
>
>
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Batusic, Mario <
> mario.batusic@fabasoft.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Alan,
>
>
>
> Here is a sample code—similar to what we use:
>
> -----Code-----
>
> <!DOCTYPE html>
>
> <html>
>
> <head>
>
> <meta charset="UTF-8">
>
> <title>Test</title>
>
> </head>
>
> <body role="application">
>
>   <div
>
>     role="menubar"
>
>     aria-label="Service">
>
>     <a
>
>       href=""
>
>       role="menuitem"
>
>       tabindex="0"> <img
>
>       lang="en"
>
>       alt="Home"
>
>       title="Home"
>
>       src="">
>
>     </a> <span
>
>       tabindex="0"
>
>       role="menuitem">Webbrowserstatus</span>&nbsp;<span
>
>       tabindex="0"
>
>       role="menuitem"
>
>       aria-haspopup="true">Benutzername </span>&nbsp; <span
>
>       tabindex="0"
>
>       role="menuitem"
>
>       aria-haspopup="true">Lokation</span> &nbsp; <span
>
>       tabindex="0"
>
>       role="menuitem"
>
>       lang="en">Support</span> &nbsp; <span
>
>       tabindex="0"
>
>       role="menuitem">Abmelden</span>
>
>   </div>
>
> </body>
>
> </html>
>
> -----Code end-----
>
>
>
> I have put tabindex=0 everywhere to make it easy for testing without any
> Javascript. Both JAWS and NVDA don’t speak the name of the Menu.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> Ciao     Mario
>
>
>
> *Von:* ALAN SMITH [mailto:alands289@gmail.com]
> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 14. Juni 2016 14:23
> *An:* Batusic, Mario <mario.batusic@fabasoft.com>; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> *Betreff:* RE: Names for ARIA menu and menubar
>
>
>
> Mario,
>
>
>
> We would have to look at the specific code as there are so many variables.
>
>
>
> Here are some things to remember when using aria labeling techniques..
>
>
>
> Aria-label overrides or takes precedence over other labels or span text
> used for labels.
>
> Aria-labelledby overrides or takes precedence over aria-label.
>
>
>
> So you may be seeing some of this behavior with your menus.
>
>
>
> Please send out a code snippet for review.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Batusic, Mario <mario.batusic@fabasoft.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:40 AM
> *To: *w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> *Subject: *Names for ARIA menu and menubar
>
>
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>
> I am perplex about Screen Readers treatment of ARIA menu and menubar names
> applied by aria-label on the corresponding element. Both JAWS and NVDA do
> not announce the menu name when focussing on menu items. We have in our
> product, that we implement as a single-page web app at the same time up to
> 3 menus and it is very important for the user to know in which widget is
> the item he/she focuses on.
>
>
>
> Does somebody know what is the reason the screen readers ignore the menu
> names? Or is it undisputed a bug? Thanks.
>
>
>
> Mario
>
>
>
> Mario Batusic
>
> Fabasoft Accessibility
>
> Fabasoft Cloud UI Team
>
>
>
> www.fabasoft.com
>
>
>
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>
> t     +43 732 606162 <%2B43%20732%20606162> 255
>
> e    mario.batusic@fabasoft.com
>
>
>
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Received on Wednesday, 15 June 2016 21:37:16 UTC

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