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Re: H43 and header cell relationships

From: J. Albert Bowden <jalbertbowden@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 15:34:16 -0500
Message-ID: <CAPVQ3_eGx72+TvXhRQQ-V9T_Rriy0RKJJGdiXYx=v9kxPJoQWw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Homme, James" <james.homme@highmark.com>
Cc: Pierre Dubois <duboisp2@gmail.com>, W3C WAI ig <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
its been a hot minute but last table i made had alot of nested headers...i
came to the conclusion that header id was deprecated and used th and
colspans to ensure heading levels were kept. on road atm, but i can dig up
example later. afaik, header ids are dead in the water. i don't claim to be
an authority, just my two cents.

cheers,
albert

On Thursday, February 20, 2014, Homme, James <james.homme@highmark.com>
wrote:

>  Hi,
>
> I think I can speak for JAWS, but please check. By default, JAWS is now
> only speaking table header cells if they are marked up with th. I think
> this goes back to version 12.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Pierre Dubois [mailto:duboisp2@gmail.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','duboisp2@gmail.com');>]
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 9:32 AM
> *To:* W3C WAI ig
> *Subject:* Re: H43 and header cell relationships
>
>
>
> Does someone has completed recent test whether the implicit header are
> supported by AT?
>
> It seems to be allowed within the HTML5 spec. [1]
>
> ---
> [1]
> On Tue Nov 6 2012, Ian Hickson wrote:
> > > About "headers" I wonder if this would be acceptable:
> > >
> > > <tr><th id="th1" colspan="2">MySection</th></tr>
> > > <tr><th id="th2" headers="th1"
> scope="row">MyName</th><td>MyData</td></tr>
> > > <tr><th id="th3" headers="th2" scope="row">+
> MySubName</th><td>MySubData</td></tr>
> > >
> > > as for the third row, the th1 header is implicit from the th2 declared
> header
> >
> > Yup, that is allowed and is defined to work as you'd expect.
> (source:
> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2012-November/037791.html
> )
>
>
> :-)
>
> Pierre Dubois
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Jonathan Avila <
> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com');>>
> wrote:
>
> Olaf, the first step I would do is to try to validate or disprove the
> possibility of a nesting/serial access approach.  Is it possible to design
> a table where a references b and b references c but a should not reference
> c?  If that's possible then you can't rely on this serial type approach.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Olaf Drümmer [mailto:olaf@druemmer.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','olaf@druemmer.com');>
> ]
>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:19 PM
> To: W3C WAI ig; Matt Tongue
> Cc: Olaf Drümmer
> Subject: Re: H43 and header cell relationships
>
> I think I have to correct my statement:
> HTML seems to require (as Sailesh points out) that indeed the headers
> attribute of table cell has to list the ids of all the header cells with
> which it is associated.
>
> Sorry for any confusion my statement might have caused.
>
> I nevertheless would like to add that I think that this approach is
> conceptually wrong - nested semantic structure should be expressed via
> nested representation of pertinent data / attributes. Even if one were to
> agree though with my reasoning it's probably a bit late in the game to
>
> have this addressed...
>
>
>
> Olaf
>
>
>
> On 19 Feb 2014, at 22:46, Olaf Drümmer <olaf@druemmer.com<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','olaf@druemmer.com');>>
> wrote:
>
> > As far as I can tell, any cell should identify only its direct header
> cell parents. Nested header cell relationships would then be represented
> by nested use of the headers attribute.
> >
> > Olaf
> >
> > On 19 Feb 2014, at 22:09, "Tongue, Matt" <Matt.Tongue@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Matt.Tongue@nrc-cnrc.gc.ca');>
> >
> wrote:
> >
> >> When marking up a table with multiple levels of headings, is it
> mandatory to always put all header cell IDs into the headers attribute of
> a cell?
> >>
> >> For example, if a data cell has 3 header cells, but the 2nd header
> cell's headers attribute references the 1st header's ID, would it not
> suffice for the data cell to just reference header cells 2 and 3, since
> header cell 2 references header cell 1 (thus creating a relationship
> already)? Or must every header always be identified for every cell, no
> matter what?
> >>
> >> Reference: http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20130905/H43
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
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-- 
J. Albert Bowden II

jalbertbowden@gmail.com

http://bowdenweb.com/
Received on Thursday, 20 February 2014 20:34:45 UTC

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