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Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript

From: David Hilbert Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 21:33:17 -0400
Cc: WAI Interest Group <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Message-Id: <393F96D0-A6D9-4B02-84B7-6183614F0622@comcast.net>
To: Brian Cragun <cragun@us.ibm.com>
Hi Brian,

So each jesture is assigned a number and you click on the number of the gesture when using they keyboard after they are made?  I cannot seem to creat jestures with voiceover running on the display.

On Apr 18, 2013, at 8:43 PM, Brian Cragun <cragun@us.ibm.com> wrote:

David, 

I don't think you can create gestures with the keyboard.  That is something a able person would need to do as a set up step.  However, once created you can replay them with the keyboard.  (Now that we know how to get to them, thanks to you and Jonathan) 

Brian Cragun 




From:        David Hilbert Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net> 
To:        Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>, 
Cc:        Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM@IBMUS, Alastair Campbell <alastc@gmail.com>, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>, WAI Interest Group <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> 
Date:        04/18/2013 05:56 AM 
Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript 



This is quite interesting since apple's io interface is so closely guarded.

I still cannot create gestures using the hardware keyboard.  all I find in the gesture area is numbers which do nothing when I attempt to employ them.

On Apr 17, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:

> Why wouldn't I just employ the assistive touch menu directly from the
screen which I can do easily enough?

I've heard some people are using VoiceOver to access an iOS device via
their wheelchair's joystick and accompanying software such as iPortal.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: David Hilbert Poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 2:39 PM
To: Jonathan Avila
Cc: Brian Cragun; Alastair Campbell; Bryan Garaventa; WAI Interest Group
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript

How do I create gestures with the keyboard?  Why wouldn't I just employ
the assistive touch menu directly from the screen which I can do easily
enough?

On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
wrote:

Ø  Does the hardware keyboard perform differently when voice over is not
running?
Yes, most commands are not available without VoiceOver.  You can’t control
iOS with the keyboard alone without VoiceOver.

Ø  How does the assistive touch menu benefit a hardware keyboard user?
You can create custom multi-point gestures and then activate them for
later use on different areas of the screen.

Jonathan

From: David Hilbert Poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 9:34 AM
To: Jonathan Avila
Cc: Brian Cragun; Alastair Campbell; Bryan Garaventa; WAI Interest Group
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript

Does the hardware keyboard perform differently when voice over is not
running?  How does the assistive touch menu benefit a hardware keyboard
user?

--
Jonnie Appleseed
With His
Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
touching the internet
Reducing Technology's disabilities
One Byte At a time

On Apr 17, 2013, at 9:28 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
wrote:

Ø  On my ipod touch 5, it's the battery status, but no matter what it is,
I don't see that as a voiceover user, I'd be using the bluetooth keyboard
to manipulate the assistive touch interface.  I am glad that it is
available though.
A lot of people with motor disabilities end up using VoiceOver as the
keyboard support on iOS is not great without VoiceOver running.  I assume
that there could be some gestures that might be better performed with
assistive touch than with VoiceOver – thus the need to have this icon
accessible.

My recommendation is that there be some sort of global keystroke or that
somehow Apple place access to this icon from the status bar similar to how
the notifications shade can be pulled down from the status bar.  The
location of the assistive touch icon is really not relevant to the
functionality – it simply can be moved around to prevent it from obscuring
other items on the screen.

Jonathan


From: David Hilbert Poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2013 9:19 AM
To: Jonathan Avila
Cc: Brian Cragun; Alastair Campbell; Bryan Garaventa; WAI Interest Group
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript

On my ipod touch 5, it's the battery status, but no matter what it is, I
don't see that as a voiceover user, I'd be using the bluetooth keyboard to
manipulate the assistive touch interface.  I am glad that it is available
though.

What would your recommended solution to this "kludge" be since the
assistive touch menu is a screen edge icon that does not act like any
other icon on the home page?

--
Jonnie Appleseed
With His
Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
touching the internet
Reducing Technology's disabilities
One Byte At a time

On Apr 17, 2013, at 8:49 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
wrote:

It appears the default location for assistive touch is on the status bar
in the middle directly above the time.  Thus, if you perform the command
sequence discussed when the assistive touch icon is in that location it
will “happen” to work.

With the icon located above the time and with a Bluetooth keyboard:
Press control+option+m to get to the status bar Press right arrow to move
over to the time Press control+option+space to activate the assistive
touch icon Press control+option+space to activate the assistive touch menu
Press left or right arrows to view assistive touch choices

This is definitely a kludge but could be used.

Jonathan

From: Brian Cragun [mailto:cragun@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 3:49 PM
To: David Hilbert Poehlman
Cc: Alastair Campbell; Bryan Garaventa; WAI Interest Group
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript

Hi David,

Thanks so much for your reply.  I have tried in vain to verify the
keystrokes you documented.   I can get to the status bar and put focus on
the battery status, but control+option+Space does not move focus to the
Assistive Touch button.    Doesn't matter if QuickNav is on or off.

I agree it would be a fantastic find, but unfortunately, I can't verify
it.   Can you please double check if there is any other aspect of your
testing that may be different than mine?

I am using an iPad 3,1 with 6.1.3 and an Apple Bluetooth wireless
keyboard.


Brian Cragun
IBM Master Inventor
IBM AbilityLab Consultant
Human Ability & Accessibility Center




From:        David Hilbert Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
To:        Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM@IBMUS,
Cc:        Alastair Campbell <alastc@gmail.com>, Bryan Garaventa
<bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>, WAI Interest Group <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Date:        04/15/2013 06:52 PM
Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript



Hi Brian C,

To get to the assistive touch menu using the hardware keyboard, press
control-option-m to bring focus to the status bar and then press control
option-space while focused on the battery status.  this will focus on the
assistive touch menu.  press control-option space to activate it and then
you can maneuver around it as expected.
This is a good and important find.

Thanks.

--
Jonnie Appleseed
With His
Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
touching the internet
Reducing Technology's disabilities
One Byte At a time

On Apr 15, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Brian Cragun <cragun@us.ibm.com> wrote:

Hi David,

I did a little more checking and I don't actually find hardware keyboard
and Assistive touch are mutually exclusive.  When I have Assistive Touch
enabled, and then add the keyboard (via Bluetooth pairing) and then
activate Voiceover, the Assitive Touch remains active.  It responds to
button presses via touch gesture.   When the Assistive Touch menu is
displayed, I can navigate using the keyboard and select any action.

The only thing I can't do is get focus to the Assistive Touch  icon.  The
keyboard navigation ring just skips over it.  But if I tap it once to give
it focus, I can use the keyboard commands to open it and use the
subsequent menus.

Brian Cragun
IBM AbilityLab Consultant
Human Ability & Accessibility Center
www.ibm.com/able





From:        David Hilbert Poehlman <poehlman1@comcast.net>
To:        Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>,
Cc:        Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM@IBMUS, Alastair Campbell
<alastc@gmail.com>, WAI Interest Group <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Date:        04/08/2013 03:22 PM
Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript



Assistive touch and hardware keyboard are mutually exclusive.  sadly,
assistive touch is not toggled on by the removal of the keyboard, but is
removed by its addition.
--
Jonnie Appleseed
With His
Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
touching the internet
Reducing Technology's disabilities
One Byte At a time

On Apr 8, 2013, at 4:04 PM, "Bryan Garaventa"
<bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com> wrote:

Unfortunately I'm not aware of the keyboard accessibility of the assistive
touch feature, but I can't find any documentation on the web that suggests
it is keyboard accessible. Hopefully others here can share more info on
it.




----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Cragun
To: Bryan Garaventa
Cc: Alastair Campbell ; WAI Interest Group
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript

Hi Bryan,

I think it was user error on my part.  :-)  A little more testing showed
that the "bounce back" occurs on the time slider when the  horizontal
slider has engaged more than 20%.  In that case, the time slide button is
not visible, and for some reason this causes it to not retain focus.  When
I set the horizontal slider to 0%, the time slider works with the gesture,
or with the keyboard after selecting the link.

Wireless keyboards.   We're requiring teams that develop mobile apps to
test both gesture access and keyboard access using a paired wireless
keyboard.  This is to meet the standards criteria, which still require
keyboard access, and we think the Soft keyboard on iOS not sufficient for
the standard, as we understand it.   Keyboards could benefit navigation by
the blind (although most blind people I know prefer gestures) but also
those with mobility impairment.  I don't have a switch to test with, but
paired keyboard access would be a good indicator of  access without
gesture.

BTW.  The only iOS native element I have not been able to access with the
keyboard, so far, is the assistive touch icon.  Any ideas?

Brian Cragun
IBM AbilityLab Consultant
Human Ability & Accessibility Center





From:        "Bryan Garaventa" <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>
To:        Brian Cragun/Rochester/IBM@IBMUS,
Cc:        "Alastair Campbell" <alastc@gmail.com>, "WAI Interest Group"
<w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Date:        04/08/2013 01:57 PM
Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript



A wireless bluetooth combination, I hadn't thought of that. The hidden
link is provided as a fallback for users with screen readers that don't
support the use of ARIA, but if a keyboard is being used, it should be
possible to set focus to the slider itself, since it is already programmed
to be keyboard accessible, then the arrow keys would move the slider? Then
again, I seem to remember that the arrow keys on Voiceover move focus
instead of passing this through to the control.

I'm not sure why the time slider would bounce focus. It literally uses the
same setup script as the first slider, the only difference is the CSS
which makes it a vertical slider instead of a horizontal one, and
aria-orientation="vertical" is set on the slider.

I tried this using the gestures and didn't have a bounce effect. Which
mode of navigation does this happen on? Also, it's important to move the
first slider to 0% before trying the Time slider, because the image that
opens will obscure the second slider.


The Time slider also has a hidden link fallback that opens a standard
select as well, which is intrinsically bound to the slider.




----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Cragun
To: Bryan Garaventa
Cc: Alastair Campbell ; WAI Interest Group
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript

Bryan, that is a fantastic gesture to learn!  Works great for gesture
interaction.  Is there a corresponding bluetooth wireless keyboard key
combination to interact with the slider?
The only thing I can find is to "select" the slider bar brings up a popup
button to set the value.

Also, any idea why on this demo when I navigate to the "time" slider, the
page resets and the focus goes to the top of page?

Brian Cragun
IBM AbilityLab Consultant




From:        "Bryan Garaventa" <bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com>
To:        "Alastair Campbell" <alastc@gmail.com>,
Cc:        "WAI Interest Group" <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Date:        04/08/2013 11:31 AM
Subject:        Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript



This would be the page at
http://whatsock.com/modules/aria_slider_module/demo.htm

Voiceover incorrectly says that you should swipe up and down with one
finger to adjust the slider, but David gave the correct sequence earlier,
which is to double tap and hold with one finger, wait for the pass-through
sound, then slide your finger in the direction you want to drag the
slider.

----- Original Message -----
From: Alastair Campbell
To: Bryan Garaventa
Cc: WAI Interest Group
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript

I couldn't get anything to 'slide' in iOS, with or without VoiceOver, I
just used the buttons.

Perhaps we're talking at cross-purposes, which page do you mean?


On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 8:45 PM, Bryan Garaventa
<bryan.garaventa@whatsock.com> wrote:
The issue is that I can't get Voiceover to grab the slide, then move it.
If there is a gesture sequence for this though, I definitely want to learn
it.

The carousels are fine in Voiceover, I worked on these a while ago. For
some reason Voiceover on iOS isn't paying attention to aria-hidden="true"
when included within a button element. That's a bout it though.


----- Original Message -----
From: Alastair Campbell
To: Bryan Garaventa
Cc: WAI Interest Group
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: Voiceover detection in JavaScript

> Now, if only I could fix the ARIA Sliders that easily.

What was the issue there? I tried the carousel and slidershow, they seemed
ok. Could adjust the ordering a little to make it easier to understand
(and don't rely on having an esc key), but it seemed ok.

-Alastair
Received on Friday, 19 April 2013 01:33:45 UTC

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