Re: changing presentation of links

John, you bring up points that have always troubled me about other instances of color differentiation. 

Focus and selection can also rely solely on color differentiation.  For example color may be use in a list to show the selected item.  If there are only two items then someone may not know which one is selected.    

Dotted focus rectangles are good for focus indication but not al browsers use them.  For example Safari and Chrome use blue and orange solid rectangles respectively.   The good thing about focus is the user can change it and if the content conforms the user can then return to prior item as a way to determine the currently focused item.   There are also color contrast issues to be concerned with in these bowsers due to the focus implementation.  VoiceOver on iOS uses a double black and white rectangle to ensue contrast in all situations. 

Jonathan

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 8, 2012, at 4:04 PM, "Foliot, John" <john.foliot@chase.com> wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>  
> I think where I was having concerns is where you suggest that the ‘discoverability’ of links could be achieved:
>  
>                “…by being able to tab to them, or by the cursor changing appearance…”
>  
> …whereas I am saying that they should be visibly discoverable without any user/page interaction (obviously screen readers will announce links when they are encountered, whether the user is tabbing or arrowing though the page). Again, for me, links that are in menus are visibly discoverable as the ‘menu paradigm’ is a learned user-interaction: pretty much everyone understands that a menu is a collection of links to other places/pages, so the need for additional  link-indication is not too high. (Menus that start being art-for-art’s-sake may be an exception here <grin>)
>  
> If I misunderstood what you were saying then sorry.
>  
> JF
>  
>  
> From: Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:45 PM
> To: Foliot, John; Roger Hudson; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: changing presentation of links
>  
> John,
> I think that we are in agreement, am I being stingy in my assessment?
>  
> Thanks,
> AWK
>  
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
> Adobe Systems
>  
> akirkpat@adobe.com
> http://twitter.com/awkawk
> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility
>  
> From: Foliot, John [mailto:john.foliot@chase.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 3:34 PM
> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick; Roger Hudson; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: changing presentation of links
>  
> I don’t think I would be as generous as Andrew here. I believe links should be perceivable to all users without first having to hunt for them (using tabbing or mousing), as I believe this is an important consideration for users with cognitive disabilities. To quote Steve Krugg, “Don’t Make Me Think”.
>  
> I wouldn’t go so far as to insist on  links *always* being blue or *always* being underlined (I am happy with other strategies that meet the test), and I think there is some latitude in Navigation links in a list (commonly used for persistent navigation menus), but for other in-page links I believe that a visual indicator that does not rely on color alone is critical, and I personally would fail any example that did not meet that minimum bar.
>  
> My $.02 worth
>  
> JF
>  
> From: Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 12:06 PM
> To: Roger Hudson; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: RE: changing presentation of links
>  
> I would say none.  Links are identifiable by being able to tab to them, or by the cursor changing appearance, as well as other ways that I’m probably forgetting.  There is an impact on usability, for sure, but I don’t think that you’d fail 1.4.1. 
>  
> Thanks,
> AWK
>  
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
> Adobe Systems
>  
> akirkpat@adobe.com
> http://twitter.com/awkawk
> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility
>  
> From: Roger Hudson [mailto:rhudson@usability.com.au] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 2:58 PM
> To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
> Subject: changing presentation of links
>  
> Hi
>  
> Many developers now remove the underline from links, and some change the colour of links from the default blue. I know from my observations this can make the pages harder for some people to use.
>  
> I would be interested to know what impact other people think this might have on complying with this Success Criteria:
> 1.4.1 Use of Color: Color is not used as the only visual means of conveying information, indicating an action, prompting a response, or distinguishing a visual element.
>  
> Thanks
> Roger
>  
>  
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