- From: Liam McGee <liam@communis.co.uk>
- Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:09:30 -0000
- To: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>, <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
If you have your system font set (in display>appearance) on Windows, tool-tips appear larger. That's about it, unfortunately. You could do bad things with javascript, I guess, but it would conflict with actual tool-tips (they would appear over the top of the js ones). Regards L. > -----Original Message----- > From: David Poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net] > Sent: 12 November 2003 03:21 > To: Liam McGee; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > Subject: Re: Nielsen's Latest Alertbox & a personal protest > > > I guess I don't see the harm that using a label does. 508 specifically > states that there must be a label. I'd also like to open this to issues > beyond screen readers for instance, if title is a tool tip, how much > controll is there over rendered size of the text in it? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Liam McGee" <liam@communis.co.uk> > To: "David Poehlman" <poehlman1@comcast.net>; <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 7:43 PM > Subject: RE: Nielsen's Latest Alertbox & a personal protest > > > > Fair point regarding title-support, David. > > Hmmm... I will run a few tests and get back to you all. If anyone fancies > trying it with anything that isn't JAWS, HPR, PWWebSpeak or Lynx, > please do > so! > > Not sure why the title appearing as a tool-tip is a problem. It's helpful > there too. > > Sounds as if it will be a display:none <label> plus a title, to keep older > and newer user-agents happy. Will attempt to report back later in > the week. > > I think that I humbly disagree that the implication is that there will > necessarily be a label. It's not what I infer, anyway. If it had been > 'Associate labels explicitly with all controls', I would have agreed with > you. If you can achieve context and orientation information > without a label, > then all is well. > > Regards > > Liam > Communis > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Poehlman [mailto:poehlman1@comcast.net] > > Sent: 12 November 2003 00:26 > > To: Liam McGee; w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > > Subject: Re: Nielsen's Latest Alertbox & a personal protest > > > > > > And to muddy the watters even further substantiating bobby and > > laying a bit > > of claim to understanding the guidelines and the checkpoints, the > > implication is that there will be a lable and not all > browser/user agents > > support title in this manner so you gain nothing by leaving out > the lable > > and some will use title as a tooltip which will complicate things even > > further. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Liam McGee" <liam@communis.co.uk> > > To: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:55 PM > > Subject: RE: Nielsen's Latest Alertbox & a personal protest > > > > > > > > As a point of information (which may muddy the waters even > further), Homer > > Page Reader and, I think, JAWS are happy to associate labels with fields > > even if they occur later in the markup. > > > > For example > > > > <input type="text" style="width: 10em" title="text > > box"><label>Name</label> > > > > would be read as Name - text box. > > > > And now for my Welsh 2p worth. > > > > **WCAG1.0 12.4. Associate labels explicitly with their controls.** > > > > If and only if a label is actually present, it should be explicitly > > associated with the field using the <label> element. If no label > > is present, > > as in Neilsen's proposed search form, you don't need a <label> > > element. BUT > > to comply with guideline 12 'provide context and orientation > information', > > you still need to make it accessible. > > > > The field should be titled with title="Search field", and the > > submit button > > should read <input type="submit" name="Search" title="Submit">. > > > > In the end, don't get too close to the checkpoint, look at the > guideline. > > That's what you need to achieve. If Bobby doesn't like it, that's > > a problem > > with Bobby. Email Watchfire :-) > > > > Usability and accessibility can conflict, but not very often. > > This isn't one > > of those times. > > > > Regards all > > > > Liam McGee > > Communis > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: David Woolley [mailto:david@djwhome.demon.co.uk] > > > Sent: 11 November 2003 21:53 > > > To: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org > > > Subject: Re: Nielsen's Latest Alertbox & a personal protest > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Nielsen finds this sufficient for the user - lacking the > > > > information a clear and unambigious label would provide - > to guess. > > > > > > I suspect the point he is making is that a search control is such a > > > standard feature of web sites that providing verbose descriptions > > > gets in the way of using it, as people can't then see the controls > > > for the descriptions. > > > > > > > > > > > >
Received on Wednesday, 12 November 2003 07:09:33 UTC