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Re: 2 things at once

From: Jonathan Chetwynd <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:18:56 +0000
Cc: "Jon Hanna" <jon@spin.ie>, <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
To: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@sidar.org>
Message-Id: <14756D75-4A99-11D7-A93B-0003939B5AD0@btinternet.com>


did you read the previous post? we are 5 years down the line and the 
web is still essentially single threaded.

frames in my experience are used as navigation, hence their name ... 
frames could do this job, as could DHTML, but they don't provide a 
standardised, accessible process.

the ability to identify where the user is is critical, perhaps not for 
this example, but consider where any problem or issue has been 
eg comparing 2 photographs. frames does not allow this. There is an 
additional serious problem: say they are copyright, if they are in a 
popup, that may be OK, in a frame they probably are not.....

you say the DHTML example is simple, I cannot see that it is, we dont 
have any usability/accessibility data. presumably each window at least 
needs a back button, but I wonder does it end there?
How do we log where the user is? presumably this could be in the URI, 
but as it is not a standard, and frames weren't designed with this in 
mind, it still remains to be standardised.
How about the case where a security guard is monitoring 7 smil video 
streams and wants to identify an incident? is this all going to be done 
on an individual coder's whim?
nb: games often rely on having a number of viewpoints.

My current solution is to run at least 2 monitors at a time, and switch 
between multiple windows. I use the history and back buttons plenty as 
This hardly helps to keep things simple and standardised, and is very 
time consuming. For my students an impossible mess that could do with 
being sorted.

Has anyone got one of these 17" jobs yet, or a decent URI of a working 
I'd love to create a window with radio in one corner frame, news in 
another,  but as no one seems to have done this, probably one gets sued.
also if one wants to bookmark this window one cannot, and this is a 
serious defect.


On Wednesday, February 26, 2003, at 10:21 PM, Charles McCathieNevile 

> In this case I am not sure that there are obvious reasons not to use 
> frames. I don't see any obvious reasons, anyway. They would allow you 
> to have all the information in a single Window, moving through each 
> story independently.
> The DHTML version is likely to be pretty simple too - two sets of 
> stuff that you flip through (this lets you make sure you get to the 
> right point at the end - rather than thinking you can make the pie and 
> finish it without actually having the mince in there...)
> Making it as broadly accessible as possible is a bit tricky - easier 
> for frames, but the end point is harder there
> cheers
> Chaals
> On Thursday, Feb 27, 2003, at 03:38 Australia/Melbourne, Jonathan 
> Chetwynd wrote:
>> for the present the user must elect to open another window, it would 
>> be preferable to have both events in one window.
>> frames is a possibility, but not one I'll entertain for the obvious 
>> reasons. The DHTML version is so ghastly I can't bear to bother.
>> interleaving is not appropriate as then we no longer have 2 threads, 
>> or more reasonably the timing of the events is not set in stone and 
>> the 2 processes need to be independent.
>> This may be a genuine HTML 'bug' that needs to be addressed for the 
>> future.
> --
> Charles McCathieNevile           charles@sidar.org
> Fundación SIDAR                       http://www.sidar.org
Received on Thursday, 27 February 2003 16:16:54 UTC

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