- From: Al Gilman <asgilman@iamdigex.net>
- Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 08:15:53 -0400
- To: Jukka Korpela <jukka.korpela@tieke.fi>, WAI-IG <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
At 02:36 AM 2002-05-22, Jukka Korpela wrote: >Hence, before encourageing authors into using markup for abbreviations and >acronyms, quite a lot of work with _defining_ them needs to be done, and >this involves considering how the information in the markup would actually >be used and how the uses might conflict. There's little hope before the >specifications even define <abbr> and <acronym> reasonably with respect to >each other; cf. to the analysis at >http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/webdev/articles/abbr-vs-acronym.shtml Good summary, good review of the topic. One small wrinkle: It is possible to do all that for a superclass that subsumes both of these. There doesn't need to be a clear distinction between them to have adequately defined constraints on what will happen with either. But it could help. One operational distinction that would seem to matter is a difference in "TTS mode hint" that is 'speak' in one case and 'spell' in another case. Al >Joe Clark wrote: > >> I wouldn't bother. <abbr> and <acronym>, which are what you're >> really getting at here, are useful only for *unfamiliar* >> acronyms, - - > >On the practical side, I agree with your basic view. In addition to problems >with implementations, <abbr> and <acronym> markup was never _defined_ >semantically in a useful way that could form the basis for making use of the >markup in various programs, including browsers. There's little point in >trying to persuade authors into using markup that lacks well-defined meaning >and that has unpredictable results. > >On the forward-looking side, or perhaps utopistically, I think that markup >for familiar acronyms could be very useful, for accessibility and other >purposes. > >> If you really, really insisted on doing this, you should use >> <acronym title="learning disability">LD</acronym> inside <a></a>. >> Presumably that would validate. > >Well, yes, it would, and nested <a> elements would not, in pre-XHTML HTML. >(The "X" means, among other things, less expressive metalanguage, so that >the prohibition to nest <a> elements needs to be said in prose for XHTML.) >No, I don't see any particular reason why the prohibition to nest <a> >elements was taken into HTML, but I digress. > >> One suspects that every reader of your page will know what "LD" means. > >Maybe, but some of them might not _remember_ it easily. > >Besides, a "reader" of the page could be an indexing robot, a speech-based >browser, or an automatic translation program. Suppose I know English just a >little and would benefit even from a relatively poor translation. (Lack of >linguistic capabilities is a form of disability, in a sense.) If >abbreviations were marked up, with their expansions, even very simple >translation technology could produce better results in many cases; in this >example, it could behave as if the expansion appeared in place of the >abbreviation. Naturally, such strategy would easily lead into disaster too: >translating "World Wide Web" word by word (and perhaps then forming an >initialism from them!) would produce something rather incomprehensible. > >Hence, before encourageing authors into using markup for abbreviations and >acronyms, quite a lot of work with _defining_ them needs to be done, and >this involves considering how the information in the markup would actually >be used and how the uses might conflict. There's little hope before the >specifications even define <abbr> and <acronym> reasonably with respect to >each other; cf. to the analysis at >http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/webdev/articles/abbr-vs-acronym.shtml > >-- >Jukka Korpela >TIEKE Tietoyhteiskunnan kehittämiskeskus ry >Finnish Information Society Development Centre >Salomonkatu 17 A, 10th floor, FIN - 00100 HELSINKI, FINLAND >Phone: +358 9 4763 0397 Fax: +358 9 4763 0399 >http://www.tieke.fi jukka.korpela@tieke.fi
Received on Wednesday, 22 May 2002 08:16:32 UTC