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RE: Fw: Disturbing trend in tables

From: Anne Pemberton <apembert@crosslink.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:48:12 -0500
Message-Id: <>
To: "Robert Neff" <rneff@bbnow.net>, "Kynn Bartlett" <kynn-edapta@idyllmtn.com>, "Bailey, Bruce" <Bruce_Bailey@ed.gov>
Cc: <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
No, Robert,
     We don't need "quantitative metrics" so much as we need to separate
the genuine needs of disabled persons from the "web development
philosophies" ... Some of the needs of humans are subjective ... a human
has to decide if a given graphic is "decorative" or "illustrative" ... or
if a given text is "comprehensible" or "obtuse" ... or if an alt tag is
sufficient or if a long description is called for. 

	Robert, from my experience in education and especially special education,
I am very cautious about the value of "quantitative metrics" as they tend
to "pigeonhole" people, and leave needs unmet that are right there in front
of your nose! "Quantitative metrics" may reduce humans to less than they
are, whereas subjective measure are more likely to enhance what humans can
be ... (If I am too eloquent in educational philosophy, my apologies -
standardized testing has been the cause of much "misclassification" of
children into and out of special ed.)


At 06:30 PM 1/18/01 -0600, Robert Neff wrote:
>This is why we need as many quantitative metrics in the guidelines as
>possible.  Subjective causes many problems.
> -----Original Message-----
>From: 	w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-ig-request@w3.org]  On
>Behalf Of Anne Pemberton
>Sent:	Thursday, January 18, 2001 5:04 PM
>To:	Kynn Bartlett; Bailey, Bruce
>Cc:	w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
>Subject:	RE: Fw: Disturbing trend in tables
>	Thank you once again for making my point more succinctly than I could ...
>Which leads to the next need ... I need to have succinct and understandable
>instruction on how to add whatever is needed to make pages more accessible
>... Furthermore, to sell the idea county-wide instead of among colleagues
>in the building, I need to be able to say ... if any of your students have
>a blind relative, you need to do 1,2,3 to your page so they can see what's
>going on with the student, if any of your students have a relative who has
>to use .... whatever, you need to do whatever .... then have a summarizing
>list that lists everything that needs to be done to make it work for anyone
>(for teachers who decide it's too much effort to find out all needs among
>relatives of their students <grin> ... ) That, I would hope, I could cull
>from the Guidelines what applies to Front Page, spoon-feed it to the
>newbies. Perhaps Version 2.0 ... Perhaps ...
>					Anne
>At 11:54 AM 1/18/01 -0800, Kynn Bartlett wrote:
>>I think Anne's use of Front Page -- with appropriate instructions
>>on how to add necessary information to make pages more accessible
>>-- is acceptable, given the fact that there are few _good_ options
>>which meet all of her criteria for a product.  There simply are no
>>good software packages aimed at non-designers creating web pages.
>>--Kynn, who guesses this makes me "uninformed"
>>Kynn Bartlett  <kynn@idyllmtn.com>                http://kynn.com/
>>Technical Developer Relations, Reef           http://www.reef.com/
>>Chief Technologist, Idyll Mountain Internet   http://idyllmtn.com/
>>Contributor, Special Ed. Using XHTML     http://kynn.com/+seuxhtml
>>Unofficial Section 508 Checklist       http://kynn.com/+section508
Received on Thursday, 18 January 2001 19:47:42 UTC

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