- From: Charles McCathieNevile <charles@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:09:41 -0400 (EDT)
- To: Nick Traenkner <nick@kentinfoworks.com>
- cc: w3c-wai-ig@w3.org
Text-only question: A text-only view is not an intrinsically bad thing. For some users it is crucial. It is just not, by itself, the best way to do accessibility. You seem to have captured the essential point very nicely - the crux is access to information, not accessibility for a given group of users. I am probably making a mountain out of a molehill - the point I am trying to make is that in general a text-only view and an "anything goes" view is insufficient, because it fails to cater for a variety of other common sets of requirements. XML Question: Again, I think you have understood it correctly. It is possible to write XML and XSL in such a way that information is only available in a device-specific way (for example specifying colours to convey different meanings, without providing any way of knowing what the colours mean). Or SMIL could have been written in such a way that textual alterntives, or audio alternatives, could not be included. In the SVG case, it is possible to build images from described objects, and for a non-graphic rendering device to interpret the layout of the various pieces of an image and explain them. This requires that the graphic is built in a way which allows this - it is possible to do everything with explicit declaration of vectors, which is the graphics equivalent of using nothing but styled Span elements in HTML in that it makes it very difficult to guess the structure of the document. Charles McCathieNevile On Fri, 21 May 1999, Nick Traenkner wrote: Two questions, one on the text-only issue and one about XML. At the beginning of this thread it seemed the problem with "text-only" was keeping them up to date. I understand this problem, and spent a considerable effort at providing a text-only site that kept up to date, not by producing copies, but by offering two seperate views of the same information. Now, I am getting the feeling that the issue isn't maintainability- it seems to have turned to some nebulous design issue. I have tried my best (maybe it's not good enough eh?) to promote web accessibility on all the projects I have worked on. I have studied the ins and outs of HTML4, CSS, and WAI guidelines (again, probably not to the extent this group would have one study) and fought to work with the new techniqies and within the guidelines. The results have been clean, well organized sites that stress accessibility to information beyond accessibility to blind, deaf and mobility impaired users- the thing I stress to clients most often when discussing accessibility is that accessibility comes down to the accessibility of information, and that this includes all the ADA issues as well as information architecture and general usability. Why isn't a text-only view of information (not a text-only copy) which does not use visual or audio data as its core elements now considered bad? Second question regarding XML: I remember there was something called XSL which I found very exciting especially as related to web accessibility. The way I initially saw it, an XML document was never "viewed" in a browser, but was a strictly formatted structured document (probably written by a program) from which various things could be communicated to either another program or a human user. But the human user would never "see" the XML, would never come in contact with the structure of the document (unless that was the purpose of the document (a table of contents as a poor example) or the interface to the XML (a nested list view of the same table of contents whose structure was defined in the XML- another poor example). I immediately realized that an XML subset document (take SMIL for instance) could be presented in many different ways with XSL- a series of paragraphs in a SMIL presentation could be rendered one after the other down a page instead of being placed along a timeline. I guess when McCathieNevile wrote: > A page created in XML is simply a page - it depends on how it was done. The > same rules apply as with HTML - device independence, markup of structure > explicitly rather than by presentation conventions, etc. XML allows these, > but as with any technology sufficiently powerful to be useful it also allows > completely inaccessible design. When writing XML applications follow the Web > Content Accessibility Guidelines. I was confused by "device independace, markup of structure explicity rather than by presentation conventions" not seeing any presentation conventions belonging in an XML document (except maybey presentation instructions kept in a <presentation> element(s)). In this case, I would say the XML is not where the accessibility is addressed but in the presentation of the data kept therein. (accessible extensible stylesheets for example). A rhetorical question: Take the vector graphics work- how would one present this information in a way accessible to a blind user? I hope I'm not overstating the obvious, I'm just concerened that I don't understand "accessibility of XML documents", which seems like a very strange concept. -nick --Charles McCathieNevile mailto:charles@w3.org phone: +1 617 258 0992 http://www.w3.org/People/Charles W3C Web Accessibility Initiative http://www.w3.org/WAI MIT/LCS - 545 Technology sq., Cambridge MA, 02139, USA
Received on Friday, 21 May 1999 13:09:53 UTC