- From: Jon Gunderson <jongund@staff.uiuc.edu>
- Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:34:54 -0500
- To: Kynn Bartlett <kynn-hwg@idyllmtn.com>, Charles McCathieNevile <charlesn@sunrise.srl.rmit.edu.au>
- Cc: WAI <w3c-wai-ig@w3.org>
Thank you for your comments. I agree that tables were not orginally intended for page layout, but they have been coopted for that purpose. I don't think WAI should encourage the use of tables for layout, but I think WAI should ignore the current practice in the use of tables for layout in the development of guidelines. Jon At 11:38 AM 7/24/98 -0700, Kynn Bartlett wrote: >At 04:52 p.m. 07/24/98 +1000, Charles McCathieNevile wrote: >>The alternative is to abandon the wholesale misuse of tables. My Doctor >>tells me not to smoke or live on a diet of beer, fish and chips and >>steak. My mechanic tells me not to drive my car as fast as it goes all >>the time. My accountant tells me not to spend all my money on beer, fish >>and chips, steak and car repairs. > >On the other hand, I sometimes ignore my doctor, if the steak looks >really good, or if it's just more convenient to drive through >McDonald's on the way home (or less expensive). > >I agree with you in principle -- and in fact, I've recently completely >eliminated tables from my personal web page. (See for example >http://www.idyllmtn.com/~kynn/index.shm and contrast with oldindex.shm) > >However, I haven't taken this approach with the CGU site (where I'm >the webmaster), with my clients' sites, or with the HTML Writers >Guild site. Why? Simply because the method I used for getting rid >of tables -- reliance on stylesheets -- is not supported by all >browsers, and in fact, my web page looks like crap in Opera, which >happens to be my browser of choice. > >I don't really care about my own "image" on the web; the funny purple >bar and ugly award graphic won't be winning any awards any time soon. >However, the other sites named -- CGU, HWG, and people who pay me to >make web sites for them -- _must_ present a good image. If I got >rid of the tables, then the pages would be more accessible to a >small number of people, but will look far worse for a larger group >of the audience. > >As someone expected to maintain what is currently considered a >"professional" and "sophisticated" appearance for those web sites, >I just can't decide "well, this will only look good in MSIE 4 and >in lynx" and design that way. I would most likely lose my job, >lose my clients, and cost the Guild its reputation. Those are >not good things. > >So for the time being, I'll continue to use tables for page >layout, even though I know it's not good for me -- just because >I don't really have much of a choice, at the present time. The >alternatives are simply not acceptable. (And my apologies to >those who can't access the information on the pages -- I try my >best to make sure the tables are relatively harmless and degrade >easily.) > >In summary: We agree in principle, but in practice, I'm stuck >with the tables. Thanks for a good post, Charles. > > >-- >Kynn Bartlett <kynn@hwg.org> >Vice President, Marketing and Outreach, HTML Writers Guild > http://www.hwg.org > Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign 1207 S. Oak Street Champaign, IL 61820 Voice: 217-244-5870 Fax: 217-333-0248 E-mail: jongund@uiuc.edu WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund http://www.als.uiuc.edu/InfoTechAccess
Received on Monday, 27 July 1998 09:35:33 UTC