Re: Focus-appearance testing

Hi Wilco,

I think that would cause problems for two reasons:

  *   Any survey over 2-3 pages will get minimal response.

  *   How long does it take someone to audit for non-text contrast the first time?
For all of the SCs there is a learning curve, and this survey is likely people’s first experience at practically testing this SC. For starters there’s an understanding doc to read.
I know I’ve gone from 10 minutes to 1 min / page on this (on average), and that’s without the reading.

Let’s focus on getting good examples that are likely to show-up the differences between auditors.

Cheers,

-Alastair


From: Wilco Fiers <wilco.fiers@deque.com>
Date: Friday, 6 January 2023 at 11:27
To: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
Cc: WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Focus-appearance testing
Hey Alastair,
I agree about doing complete pages. I'd go up to at least 10 pages though. Testing one success criterion on 10 pages should not be a big undertaking. If that takes you more than 30 minutes we have a different problem.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 11:42 PM Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com<mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>> wrote:
Hi Wilco,

I’ve added that:
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/2901<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag%2Fissues%2F2901&data=05%7C01%7Cacampbell%40nomensa.com%7C57495cd4ea254574bb1808daefd8f6d9%7Cebea4ad6fbbf43bd8449c56e26692c35%7C0%7C0%7C638086012382856878%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KDw42jCs%2FUxxuprKe0AgmpAByXyAkJSSFx0TBshjnEI%3D&reserved=0>

There are two things to keep in mind:

  1.  The more questions you put into a survey, the less people will fill it out. Let’s not make it too long, I’m happy to replace the current examples with better ones.
  2.  I think it is worth doing complete pages. One thing I found doing it myself was that after you do a couple on one page, the rest are straightforward (due to the same indicators being re-used). If we are looking for in-practice feasibility, that’s a factor.

Kind regards,

-Alastair

From: Wilco Fiers <wilco.fiers@deque.com<mailto:wilco.fiers@deque.com>>
Date: Wednesday, 4 January 2023 at 13:38
To: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com<mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>>
Cc: WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: Focus-appearance testing
Hey Alastair,
I think the approach is good, I would ask for a broader sample though. More pages, and not just from organisations that are known for investing a good deal in accessibility. If you'd like, I'd be happy to find a few more examples. I would maybe also open an issue in GitHub related to this topic so the community has an opportunity to propose pages. They're the ones we need to convince about the validity of this SC, so better to involve them in the selection.

On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 1:57 PM Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com<mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>> wrote:
Hi everyone,

Something that came out of a previous meeting was to test the complexity / reliability of focus-appearance in practice.

I’m trying to set that up, but before people start filling it in, I’d like to check:

  1.  It makes sense as an exercise;
  2.  The examples are reasonable.

If you are interested and have a few minutes, please take a look at the instructions:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lE7jN_BVvGz48StHODhvvRxRp0XMhGtL0P0Pp8oM-ms/edit#<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1lE7jN_BVvGz48StHODhvvRxRp0XMhGtL0P0Pp8oM-ms%2Fedit%23&data=05%7C01%7Cacampbell%40nomensa.com%7C57495cd4ea254574bb1808daefd8f6d9%7Cebea4ad6fbbf43bd8449c56e26692c35%7C0%7C0%7C638086012382856878%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k2CcnxGxXO6hFmQoJrMO0A6cM0P0oDmmPN5WjqT2RH4%3D&reserved=0>

If you have minor improvements, just reply to me and I’ll do them.

If you have a better (and feasible) approach, or have better examples to use, please reply to this thread.

Kind regards,

-Alastair

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@alastc / www.nomensa.com<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nomensa.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cacampbell%40nomensa.com%7C57495cd4ea254574bb1808daefd8f6d9%7Cebea4ad6fbbf43bd8449c56e26692c35%7C0%7C0%7C638086012382856878%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ZGUjatWN8Q%2FTaN18bbAsSoSlYQfCxGEA0FAPf%2Bwi%2BDo%3D&reserved=0>




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Wilco Fiers
Axe-core & Axe-linter product owner - WCAG 3 Project Manager - Facilitator ACT Task Force
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Wilco Fiers
Axe-core & Axe-linter product owner - WCAG 3 Project Manager - Facilitator ACT Task Force
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