Re: Are there more effective ways to use this mailing list to engage members & make decisions

The Github website is quite usable with a screen reader in my 
experience. I know the website had, and may still have, challenges for 
magnifier users, and possibly others too, but certainly when it comes to 
using Github issues, I can't think of anything that can't be done using 
a screen reader.





On 28/04/2023 4:33 PM, Mike Gifford wrote:
> So I’ve tried to put pressure on GitHub years ago to improve their 
> accessibility. That effort wasn’t all that successful, but I think 
> they did make some improvements to the interface.
>
> I’ve reached out to a couple people I know involved in GitHub’s 
> accessibility. I do think it is worth other folks putting some 
> pressure on them too. Ultimately, GitHub is where so much tech 
> innovation happens. If members of the W3C can’t use GitHub to engage 
> in a project’s development, then they can’t help make products more 
> accessible, and clients like governments really shouldn’t be building 
> off of them either. The W3C is important, but making GitHub more 
> accessible is probably at least as important. Maybe Microsoft can do 
> some “3rd party” testing on it. Certainly the members of this group 
> will have some clout as they represent entities that likely have 
> enterprise contracts with GitHub.
>
> However, once the issue queue is more accessible to screen reader 
> users who use the web interface, I think that voting via the issue 
> queue could work.
>
> Yes, people can change their thumbs up/down vote on an issue. However, 
> I think the API could actually just allow you to take a snapshot of 
> the votes at a particular time and post them as a snapshot at a 
> particular moment. So yes, you’d be able to change your vote 
> afterwards, but there would be a static capture of who voted a that 
> moment. A more manual method would be to either take a screenshot of 
> votes or create a custom Greesemonkey script to extract the values for 
> the votes into a method that could be easily cut/paste into a comment. 
> And yes, GitHub should make this easier, so we don’t have to hack a 
> solution.
>
> Maybe we have to stick to voting by email for now. I suspect that some 
> folks will resist moving to GitHub even after usability and 
> accessibility issues are addressed there. Maybe it is possible to have 
> some folks vote on GitHub & everyone else continue to vote via email, 
> but have the combined results recorded on GitHub.
>
> I do think that the use of <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> could be more strategic 
> and useful, if we could have focused discussions done within an 
> accessible GitHub repository. I don’t know. I’m not an expert at this. 
> It just seems like it isn’t the most effective way to use the 
> technology to its best advantage.
>
> Mike
>
> Ps. I changed the title, as this is often a problem that happens when 
> threads get forked in mailing lists (and indeed other threaded 
> communications).
>
>
> Mike Gifford, Senior Strategist, CivicActions
> Drupal Core Accessibility Maintainer
> https://civicactions.com   | https://accessibility.civicactions.com
> http://twitter.com/mgifford | http://linkedin.com/in/mgifford
>
> On April 27, 2023 at 12:36:45 PM, Jennifer Strickland 
> (jstrickland@mitre.org) wrote:
>
>> When I joined AGWG I was surprised by the email voting. It seemed so 
>> antiquated compared to the developer environments I was used to.
>>
>> After collaborating with some of our colleagues I grew to appreciate 
>> how Github isn’t accessible (in all forms of that word) for many.
>>
>> The email voting gets the job done and allows the diverse 
>> perspectives to participate.
>>
>> Setting a filter or a label gave my inbox some relief.
>>
>> *From: *Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
>> *Date: *Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 11:32 AM
>> *To: *WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> *Subject: *[EXT] Re[2]: Understanding dismay
>>
>> Worth noting here that the voting / CFC is aimed only at WG members on
>> the GL list. Putting it on GitHub would likely lead to "randoms" voting
>> as well, which then would require deduping/verifying votes?
>>
>> P
>> --
>> Patrick H. Lauke
>>
>> https://www.splintered.co.uk/ / https://github.com/patrickhlauke /
>> https://codepen.io/patrickhlauke
>> https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ / https://www.deviantart.com/redux
>> https://mastodon.social/@patrick_h_lauke
>>
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From "Mike Gifford" <mike.gifford@civicactions.com>
>> To "WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org)" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; "Andrew
>> Kirkpatrick" <akirkpat@adobe.com>
>> Date 27/04/2023 16:00:03
>> Subject Re: Understanding dismay
>>
>> >Thanks for asking Andrew,
>> >
>> >I’m sure this has been brought up before, but I’m not part of any other
>> >group that does this. I’m part of lots of other groups.
>> >
>> >Normally in tech projects people go to GitHub & give a Thumbs-Up if a
>> >vote is needed. That becomes the default voting mechanism for many
>> >projects.
>> >
>> >I could see the W3C setting up a simple link that allows logged in
>> >users to record a yes/no on a particular decision.
>> >
>> >I know that there are folks that don’t like GitHub. Like any tool, it
>> >isn’t perfect. I know setting up online voting systems can be expensive
>> >and can carry their own set of challenges.
>> >
>> >But there is a lot of email discussions that take place on this list.
>> >It clutters up a lot of folks inboxes. Adds to our cognitive load.
>> >Sure, it is a lowest-common-denominator solution that works. However,
>> >how many people does it drive away from the W3C? How many folks just
>> >filter the emails, and become disengaged from the conversation.
>> >
>> >I don’t know the answers to this. Maybe a hybrid option could work.
>> >Pushing most conversations and discussions to GitHub, where many of us
>> >would find it more useful, but allowing some folks to have some
>> >conversations in the mailing list because that is their preference. It
>> >is all a bit awkward.
>> >
>> >I figured that because I’m new I should ask this before I too become
>> >accustomed to a pattern (that seems broken).
>> >
>> >Mike
>> >
>> >
>> >Mike Gifford, Senior Strategist, CivicActions
>> >Drupal Core Accessibility Maintainer
>> >https://civicactions.com <https://civicactions.com/> |
>> >https://accessibility.civicactions.com
>> >http://twitter.com/mgifford | http://linkedin.com/in/mgifford
>> >
>> >On April 27, 2023 at 9:16:14 AM, Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> >(akirkpat@adobe.com) wrote:
>> >
>> >>Mike,
>> >>
>> >>Can you explain why this process is dismaying?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>FYI, we changed to using the CFC process which includes an extended
>> >>period of time for respondents around the world to have time to
>> >>respond to decisions without attending a call that may be at 2am for
>> >>them. All of the CFC responses are recorded in the W3C’s system for a
>> >>permanent record.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Thanks,
>> >>
>> >>AWK
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> >>
>> >>Director, Accessibility
>> >>
>> >>Adobe
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>akirkpat@adobe.com
>> >>
>> >>http://twitter.com/awkawk
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>From: Mike Gifford <mike.gifford@civicactions.com>
>> >>Date: Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 7:43 AM
>> >>To: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> >>Subject: Re: CFC Move WCAG 2.2 to Candidate Recommendation
>> >>Resent-From: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> >>Resent-Date: Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 7:42 AM
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>+1 Thanks.
>> >>
>> >>Also, a bit dismayed that we're voting via email.
>> >>
>> >>Mike
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 7:17 AM Bradley Montgomery, Rachael L
>> >><rmontgomery@loc.gov> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>+1
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>From: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
>> >>>Date: Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 7:14 PM
>> >>>To: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> >>>Subject: CFC Move WCAG 2.2 to Candidate Recommendation
>> >>>Resent-From: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> >>>Resent-Date: Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 7:12 PM
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>CAUTION: This email message has been received from an external
>> >>>source. Please use caution when opening attachments, or clicking on
>> >>>links.
>> >>>
>> >>>Hi everyone,
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Call For Consensus — ends Tuesday 2nd April at 5pm Boston time.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>The Working Group has agreed (in meetings) to re-start the Candidate
>> >>>Recommendation stage for WCAG 2.2.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>This CFC is to approve that transition into CR, including the changes
>> >>>made since the last one.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>There are updates to Target Size and Focus Appearance, which can be
>> >>>viewed here:
>> >>>
>> >>>https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3123/files
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>These two SCs will be marked ‘at risk’, with a fallback to the
>> >>>previous versions. If that fall back is also not agreed, then it
>> >>>would result in removal. (For Focus Appearance, the fallback would be
>> >>>the previous text at AAA level.)
>> >>>The fallbacks for ‘at risk’ are subject to approval from W3C
>> >>>management, we would return to the group if it is not approved.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Minor changes since the last CR:
>> >>>
>> >>>A non-normative change to Focus Not Obscured (adjusting the notes)
>> >>>was agreed: https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3083/files Accessibility
>> >>>Authentication had “(minimum)” added to the name:
>> >>>https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/3132/files
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have
>> >>>not been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you
>> >>>“not being able to live with” this decision, please let the group
>> >>>know before the CfC deadline.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Kind regards,
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>-Alastair
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>--
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>@alastc / www.nomensa.com <http://www.nomensa.com>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Mike Gifford, Senior Strategist, CivicActions
>> >>
>> >>Drupal Core Accessibility Maintainer
>> >>
>> >>https://civicactions.com <https://civicactions.com/> |
>> >>https://accessibility.civicactions.com
>> >><https://accessibility.civicactions.com/>
>> >>
>> >>http://twitter.com/mgifford | http://linkedin.com/in/mgifford
>> >>
>>
-- 
Léonie Watson (she/her)
Director
https://tetralogical.com

Received on Saturday, 29 April 2023 09:19:21 UTC