RE: Pre-CFC - Redundant entry

Hi Wilco,

If navigation doesn’t fit, we can be more explicit.

I would rather not tackle ‘page state’ as part of one SC, it would have wider impacts.

How about:
Step a in a process: a set of user-interface controls to achieve particular user-actions, [ins]where selecting a link or button[/ins] is required to reach another set of user-interface controls in the same process

Cheers,

-Alastair


From: Wilco Fiers <wilco.fiers@deque.com>
Sent: 28 May 2020 11:38
To: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
Cc: WCAG list (w3c-wai-gl@w3.org) <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Pre-CFC - Redundant entry

Hey Alastair,
This is a definite improvement, but it is putting a lot of weight on this word "navigation", potentially stretching it outside of its common-sense use. Is submitting a form truly a type of navigation? I hesitate to say yes to that. Similarly if you have an accordion form; all on one page, but with different parts of it split up over different parts of an accordion. I'm not sure that's best described as "navigation".

A conservative reading of this definition would allow someone to argue that unless something in the navigator API<https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Navigator> changes, whatever is used to show/hide sections of a process doesn't count as a step.

What makes defining this so difficult is that WCAG doesn't have the concept of page state<https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-EM/#states>. This was a problem for the definition of SPAs too. Otherwise you could define it in terms of "A step in a process is any page state that includes user interface components that are used as part of a process". I think the right solution to this would be to define page state and make "step" a type of "page state", when that page state is used in a process.


W



On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 5:27 PM Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com<mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>> wrote:
Hi Wilco & everyone,

This conversation stalled a bit, is this definition for ‘steps in a process’ ok?

Added here:
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/1046/commits/80dea318ef8c6f65b66d2022fbb06005a5ca74c0


If so, we can go to CFC on this one.

Cheers,

-Alastair


From: Alastair Campbell

- "user-actions presented": I don't think a "user action" is something that can be "presented", you can present content that users can interact with, but I don't think you can actually present the action itself

Yea, I wasn’t happy with that, but I was trying to keep fairly close to the process definition we have. User actions are the things done as part of a process… still thinking about that.


- "presented separately": this can mean a number of things. Form controls in a fieldset can be said to be "presented separately", but that doesn't seem to be the intended meaning

When we discussed it on a call, the main thing was that you had to navigate between steps. That doesn’t mean just page by page, but we wanted to include accordion type forms as well.

How about:
“Step a in a process: a set of user-interface controls to achieve particular user-actions, where navigation is required to reach another set of user-interface controls in the same process"

Cheers,

-Alastair




--
Wilco Fiers
Axe for Web product owner - Co-facilitator WCAG-ACT - Chair ACT-R
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