- From: Steve Lee <stevelee@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 17:17:12 +0100
- To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
+1 On 14/04/2020 16:54, Rachael Bradley Montgomery wrote: > Hello, > > (Chair hat off). Context sensitive help is incredibly important but I > believe outside the scope of this SC. I am concerned that adding it in > at this point will keep us from moving this important SC on non-context > sensitive help forward. It seems like we should work through a separate > SC for context sensitive help through the next round of process (either > WCAG 2.3 or 3.0). Based on the excellent points about search being > difficult for smaller websites, I think we should go back to the earlier > SC wording and then add in more details about what would make good > self-help in the understanding document. We could then include the > benefits of search in there. > > Rachael > > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 11:42 AM Niemann, Gundula > <gundula.niemann@sap.com <mailto:gundula.niemann@sap.com>> wrote: > > Hello Jennie,____ > > __ __ > > of course some background helps. Thank you for providing.____ > > Nevertheless, context help according to my experience with end-users > and with testing is the one most often needed and very often missed.____ > > You stated something is needed beyond that.____ > > I understand that context help in your point of view is needed (from > your wording I conclude you take it as a prerequisite), yet it does > not suffice.____ > > __ __ > > What about requesting both then?____ > > __ __ > > So the suggestion for the SC is:____ > > __ __ > > For single page apps or any set of web pages > <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-set-of-web-pages>with blocks of > content that are repeated on multiple web pages > <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-web-page-s>, a self-help option > including a context help is available andat least one of the > following is included or linked in a consistent location:____ > > __·__Human contact details____ > > __·__Human contact mechanism ____ > > __·__A fully automated chatbot that can: ____ > > __o__recognize misspelled words, ____ > > __o__provide human contact details if the chatbot is unable to > provide a satisfactory response after 3 attempts,____ > > __o__be dismissed with a single interaction, and recalled using a > link or button.____ > > __ __ > > Except for archival unsupported content which is clearly labeled as > such, or where finding help would invalidate the activity.____ > > __ __ > > (I colored the background of the main change.)____ > > __ __ > > Best regards,____ > > Gundula____ > > __ __ > > *From:*Delisi, Jennie (MNIT) <jennie.delisi@state.mn.us > <mailto:jennie.delisi@state.mn.us>> > *Sent:* Dienstag, 14. April 2020 17:26 > *To:* Niemann, Gundula <gundula.niemann@sap.com > <mailto:gundula.niemann@sap.com>>; Alastair Campbell > <acampbell@nomensa.com <mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>>; Rachael > Bradley Montgomery <rachael@accessiblecommunity.org > <mailto:rachael@accessiblecommunity.org>>; Keim, Oliver > <oliver.keim@sap.com <mailto:oliver.keim@sap.com>>; WCAG > <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>> > *Subject:* RE: Finding Help____ > > __ __ > > Maybe some context would be helpful.____ > > __ __ > > Contextual help is not the intent of this proposed success criteria. > This is intended to support beyond contextual help. And, there > should still be language that indicates contextual help does not > satisfy the success criteria.____ > > __ __ > > What a website does is also not the intent of the help. Originally, > the goal was to support those using a website to complete a task on > the site. And, that have trouble finding the help available – > easily. The intent is a scenario like:____ > > 1. I am on a website, trying to complete a task. I encounter > difficulty.____ > 2. Finding the help available, preferably a person, is easy to > locate. Easy: meaning in the same location on every page.____ > 3. When a person is not available, knowing what help is available > (such as an FAQ) helps me quickly determine if there is > something that can help me beyond the contextual help on that > page.____ > > __ __ > > Please let me know if this helps clarify the intent.____ > > Jennie____ > > __ __ > > *Jennie Delisi, MA, CPWA*____ > > Accessibility Analyst | Office of Accessibility____ > > *Minnesota IT Services*|*Partners in Performance____* > > 658 Cedar Street____ > > St. Paul, MN 55155____ > > O: 651-201-1135____ > > /Information Technology for Minnesota Government/ | mn.gov/mnit > <http://mn.gov/mnit>____ > > Minnesota IT Services Logo____ > > Facebook logo <https://www.facebook.com/MN.ITServices>LinkedIn logo > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/mn-it-services>Twitter logo > <https://twitter.com/mnit_services>____ > > __ __ > > *From:*Niemann, Gundula <gundula.niemann@sap.com > <mailto:gundula.niemann@sap.com>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 14, 2020 10:15 AM > *To:* Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com > <mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>>; Rachael Bradley Montgomery > <rachael@accessiblecommunity.org > <mailto:rachael@accessiblecommunity.org>>; Keim, Oliver > <oliver.keim@sap.com <mailto:oliver.keim@sap.com>>; WCAG > <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>; Delisi, Jennie > (MNIT) <jennie.delisi@state.mn.us <mailto:jennie.delisi@state.mn.us>> > *Subject:* RE: Finding Help____ > > __ __ > > > > *This message may be from an external email source.*____ > > Do not select links or open attachments unless verified. Report all > suspicious emails to Minnesota IT Services Security Operations > Center.____ > > __ __ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Hello Alastair,____ > > __ __ > > maybe we can use the example to illustrate what I would like to see > as online help (specifically context help).____ > > __ __ > > I opened that app, and I have no clue what it does. No explanation, > no input help.____ > > No clue. ____ > > Even after interaction (“try one of these” – I chose one) I have no > clue what this app does.____ > > My colleague found out what it does: It compresses image files.____ > > __ __ > > So what it needs (let’s imagine it was accessible and > well-designed):____ > > * An explanation what it does and which options it provides. > Amount: a few lines, maybe half a page. ____ > * Context help that answers the questions (with the respective UI > element):____ > > o How can I zoom the image with keyboard?____ > o How can I pan with keyboard?____ > o …____ > > Amount: some words or a sentence each____ > > __ __ > > Our main concern is that context help should be provided.____ > > Most user questions arise around how interaction is done for > specific UI elements, and here specifically with keyboard.____ > > __ __ > > The help should be adequate for the complexity of the application / > web site.____ > > A small app might need a one-pager next to it and some context help.____ > > A large business application might need a handbook which explains > interaction as well as the application, next to context help inside > the application itself.____ > > The handbook for the large application is rarely missing.____ > > The context help inside the application is often missing, > independently of the size of application.____ > > __ __ > > I agree a search mechanism is not adequate in all cases and thus > might be recommended in case of complex sites with a large help, but > a search mechanism should not be requested for all applications / > web sites.____ > > __ __ > > Best regards,____ > > Gundula____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > *From:*Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com > <mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>> > *Sent:* Dienstag, 14. April 2020 15:35 > *To:* Niemann, Gundula <gundula.niemann@sap.com > <mailto:gundula.niemann@sap.com>>; Rachael Bradley Montgomery > <rachael@accessiblecommunity.org > <mailto:rachael@accessiblecommunity.org>>; Keim, Oliver > <oliver.keim@sap.com <mailto:oliver.keim@sap.com>>; WCAG > <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>; Delisi, Jennie > (MNIT) <jennie.delisi@state.mn.us <mailto:jennie.delisi@state.mn.us>> > *Subject:* RE: Finding Help____ > > __ __ > > Hi Gundual,____ > > __ __ > > > I do object to accepting an FAQ to fulfill the requirement. An FAQ is a nice-to-have, but it does not suffice the intention of the SC: to ensure available help for the end-user.____ > > __ __ > > A lot of the smaller organizations (/people) I work with would not > be able to provide a full help section, especially with a search > mechanism.____ > > __ __ > > There are small websites and single page apps that do one thing, > e.g. https://squoosh.app/ > <https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsquoosh.app%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cjennie.delisi%40state.mn.us%7C81622fa8a5e3490cb44e08d7e086a1c7%7Ceb14b04624c445198f26b89c2159828c%7C0%7C0%7C637224741156177151&sdata=JMtvDFxsAaREzJOs4XOsTIwLR%2BeX0emkHxjkbT6Vnuc%3D&reserved=0>.____ > > (Just an example that came to mind, no personal connection and I’m > not saying it is paragon of accessibility.)____ > > __ __ > > Including a help section bigger than the rest of the website is an > odd requirement to make.____ > > __ __ > > Kind regards,____ > > __ __ > > -Alastair____ > > > > -- > Rachael Montgomery, PhD > Director, Accessible Community > rachael@accessiblecommunity.org <mailto:rachael@accessiblecommunity.org> > > "I will paint this day with laughter; > I will frame this night in song." > - Og Mandino >
Received on Tuesday, 14 April 2020 16:17:21 UTC