Re: CFC - Responses to issues 657, 677, and 685 on text spacing

+1 Alastair.
​Given the large variety of non Latin-based languages mentioned that have
various issues related text spacing, it seems scoping to what we know works
is reasonable.​

perhaps Modelling on Laura's exception...

Exception: Non Latin based languages.

Jim

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
wrote:

> I think we have two issues:
>
>
>
>    1. Trying to apply a requirement where increased spacing might change
>    the meaning of the language, or simply not apply.
>
>    E.g. looking at Richard Ishida’s script resources [1], there are 9
>    scripts (languages?) that don’t use space as a word separator, so
>    word-spacing doesn’t apply (I assume).
>
>    2. Is there research to show that increasing spacing as defined in the
>    SC improves readability for people with low vision.
>
>
>
> Also, looking at the list of scripts in Richard’s list, the term “CJK”
> seems rather inadequate!
>
>
>
> I think Andrew’s exception covers the first aspect (does it work in the
> language), but if the second is also a worry then we should restrict more
> like Laura’s:
>
>
>
> “Exception: Content written in script languages such as Chinese, Japanese,
> and Korean.”
>
>
>
> (Or include what we know works, so scope to Latin-based languages, but not
> sure about that.)
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> -Alastair
>
>
>
> 1] https://r12a.github.io/scripts/featurelist/
>
>
>
> *From: *Laura Carlson
>
>
>
> Hi Andrew, Jason, and all,
>
>
>
> If it is okay to proceed with having little to no research specific to
> text spacing and CJK languages, I am happy if we use Andrew's reply.
>
> If it is not okay, perhaps we could go with something like the exemption
> version that I previously drafted:
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/index.php?title=Draft_
> Responses_to_Dec_WD_Issues&oldid=9083#657_and_677
>
>
>
> Kindest Regards,
>
> Laura
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 15, 2018 7:00 AM, "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote:
>
> -1
> The response does not meet the need for the internationalization concerns
> to be properly considered, reviewed and addressed before entering CR.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Makoto UEKI - Infoaxia, Inc. [mailto:makoto.ueki@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2018 7:39 AM
> To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
> Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: CFC - Responses to issues 657, 677, and 685 on text spacing
>
> -1 for now.
>
> I'm not sure if the Exception addressed especially #657 for the vertical
> text mode as line/paragraph/letter spacing can be used.
>
> Can we say that 1.5 times for line spacing, 2 times for paragraph spacing,
> and 0.12 times for letter spacing are valid for text written in vertical
> mode?
>
> Another question I still have is whether these values are valid for text
> written in CJK and Arabic or not (Do we have basis?).
>
> I'm looking for the research-based basis for these questions, but I
> haven't found them yet.
>
> - Makoto
>
>
>
> 2018-01-15 13:25 GMT+09:00 Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>:
> > Call For Consensus — ends Tuesday January 16th at 11:59pm Boston time.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Working Group has discussed responses to the following issues:
> >
> > 657: When vertical text mode, are SC 1.4.8/1.4.12 applicable as they are?
> > (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
> > ub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F657&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%
> > 7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%
> > 7C0%7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=pRIF8b0gPi9i8SdkWacV8xAzVwt7h%2FNL%
> > 2BTCySf%2BIoUc%3D&reserved=0)
> >
> > 677: Letter/Word spacing for CJK languages - SC 1.4.12 Text Spacing
> > (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
> > ub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F677&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%
> > 7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%
> > 7C0%7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=TFCViVWYCSmnMEuSTLhAPFJGEY7j0p17GCy
> > z2vQEuxE%3D&reserved=0)
> >
> > 685: Internationalization implications of 1.4.12
> > (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith
> > ub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F685&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%
> > 7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%
> > 7C0%7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=mjtPIkAZh8jtU0EQsOMob7tQAl43RNYlKMQ
> > 8ykp6Mnc%3D&reserved=0)
> >
> >
> >
> > Response to Issue 657/677/685:
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w
> > 3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FDraft_Responses_to_Dec_WD_Issues%23657_and_6
> > 77_and_685&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d5
> > 5c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C6365161680141682
> > 88&sdata=A5LWdUAqrRnauiAMj43LRnxSyd9QiNZ0AmwY2tOBrP4%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> >
> > The changes to the SC are implemented in this pull request:
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithu
> > b.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fpull%2F729&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cd
> > d585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0
> > %7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=Pe0a9A4URCC%2FxRTL3U21ix6jw3h7wJnd0K5b
> > FheZ2to%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > The changed SC can be viewed here:
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frawgit
> > .com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissue657%2Fguidelines%2Findex.html%23text-spacin
> > g&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%
> > 7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=
> > tk1MZ3kmfcVEXTpMsbf8NEzxr61aXC6trCiz3N8h35M%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> >
> > If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have
> > not been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you
> > “not being able to live with” this decision, please let the group know
> > before the CfC deadline.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > AWK
> >
> >
> >
> > Andrew Kirkpatrick
> >
> > Group Product Manager, Accessibility
> >
> > Adobe
> >
> >
> >
> > akirkpat@adobe.com
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitte
> > r.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d
> > 08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636516168014
> > 168288&sdata=Wi6xHRInLyAok6fAKpsBAWZ9vCr61aQt1QgMJAkVQgQ%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9452 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964