Re: CFC - Responses to issues 657, 677, and 685 on text spacing

I think we have two issues:


  1.  Trying to apply a requirement where increased spacing might change the meaning of the language, or simply not apply.

E.g. looking at Richard Ishida’s script resources [1], there are 9 scripts (languages?) that don’t use space as a word separator, so word-spacing doesn’t apply (I assume).

  2.  Is there research to show that increasing spacing as defined in the SC improves readability for people with low vision.

Also, looking at the list of scripts in Richard’s list, the term “CJK” seems rather inadequate!

I think Andrew’s exception covers the first aspect (does it work in the language), but if the second is also a worry then we should restrict more like Laura’s:

“Exception: Content written in script languages such as Chinese, Japanese, and Korean.”

(Or include what we know works, so scope to Latin-based languages, but not sure about that.)

Cheers,

-Alastair

1] https://r12a.github.io/scripts/featurelist/


From: Laura Carlson

Hi Andrew, Jason, and all,

If it is okay to proceed with having little to no research specific to text spacing and CJK languages, I am happy if we use Andrew's reply.

If it is not okay, perhaps we could go with something like the exemption version that I previously drafted:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/index.php?title=Draft_Responses_to_Dec_WD_Issues&oldid=9083#657_and_677


Kindest Regards,
Laura


On Jan 15, 2018 7:00 AM, "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>> wrote:
-1
The response does not meet the need for the internationalization concerns to be properly considered, reviewed and addressed before entering CR.

-----Original Message-----
From: Makoto UEKI - Infoaxia, Inc. [mailto:makoto.ueki@gmail.com<mailto:makoto.ueki@gmail.com>]
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2018 7:39 AM
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>
Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: CFC - Responses to issues 657, 677, and 685 on text spacing

-1 for now.

I'm not sure if the Exception addressed especially #657 for the vertical text mode as line/paragraph/letter spacing can be used.

Can we say that 1.5 times for line spacing, 2 times for paragraph spacing, and 0.12 times for letter spacing are valid for text written in vertical mode?

Another question I still have is whether these values are valid for text written in CJK and Arabic or not (Do we have basis?).

I'm looking for the research-based basis for these questions, but I haven't found them yet.

- Makoto



2018-01-15 13:25 GMT+09:00 Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>:
> Call For Consensus — ends Tuesday January 16th at 11:59pm Boston time.
>
>
>
> The Working Group has discussed responses to the following issues:
>
> 657: When vertical text mode, are SC 1.4.8/1.4.12 applicable as they are?
> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith

> ub.com<http://ub.com>%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F657&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org<http://40ets.org>%
> 7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%
> 7C0%7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=pRIF8b0gPi9i8SdkWacV8xAzVwt7h%2FNL%
> 2BTCySf%2BIoUc%3D&reserved=0)
>
> 677: Letter/Word spacing for CJK languages - SC 1.4.12 Text Spacing
> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith

> ub.com<http://ub.com>%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F677&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org<http://40ets.org>%
> 7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%
> 7C0%7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=TFCViVWYCSmnMEuSTLhAPFJGEY7j0p17GCy
> z2vQEuxE%3D&reserved=0)
>
> 685: Internationalization implications of 1.4.12
> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgith

> ub.com<http://ub.com>%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F685&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org<http://40ets.org>%
> 7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%
> 7C0%7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=mjtPIkAZh8jtU0EQsOMob7tQAl43RNYlKMQ
> 8ykp6Mnc%3D&reserved=0)
>
>
>
> Response to Issue 657/677/685:
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w

> 3.org<http://3.org>%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FDraft_Responses_to_Dec_WD_Issues%23657_and_6
> 77_and_685&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org<http://40ets.org>%7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d5
> 5c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C6365161680141682
> 88&sdata=A5LWdUAqrRnauiAMj43LRnxSyd9QiNZ0AmwY2tOBrP4%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
> The changes to the SC are implemented in this pull request:
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithu

> b.com<http://b.com>%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fpull%2F729&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org<http://40ets.org>%7Cd
> d585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0
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> FheZ2to%3D&reserved=0
>
> The changed SC can be viewed here:
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Frawgit

> .com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissue657%2Fguidelines%2Findex.html%23text-spacin
> g&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org<http://40ets.org>%7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d08d55c1516f8%
> 7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636516168014168288&sdata=
> tk1MZ3kmfcVEXTpMsbf8NEzxr61aXC6trCiz3N8h35M%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
> If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have
> not been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you
> “not being able to live with” this decision, please let the group know
> before the CfC deadline.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> AWK
>
>
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>
> Adobe
>
>
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitte

> r.com<http://r.com>%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org<http://40ets.org>%7Cdd585b66067046b7d79d
> 08d55c1516f8%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636516168014
> 168288&sdata=Wi6xHRInLyAok6fAKpsBAWZ9vCr61aQt1QgMJAkVQgQ%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
>


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