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RE: Issue 650 Does the Hover or focus SC apply to tabbed interfaces?

From: Abma, J.D. (Jake) <Jake.Abma@ing.nl>
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 07:47:12 +0000
To: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>, "Patrick H. Lauke" <redux@splintered.co.uk>
CC: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Message-ID: <4de166eaf96041818af244fb78b5e6c0@SU8000007192.ad.ing.net>
To recap multiple mails it feels like we've used the wrong wording to tackle the problem of popovers/overlay content hindering other content or the implementation hindering navigating in-page to the popovers/overlay content. The key lays in naming this specifically and not using another word which causes confusion and adding a note about what this SC truly is about.

My suggested re-wording would be to NOT use "additional" but something like "popover":

"When pointer hover or keyboard focus triggers popover content to become visible, the following are true: ..."

This will solve all inconveniences right now with in-page content appearing on focus like with Tab/tab-panels (or the finger tabs) using the tab key instead of arrows (ARIA) and content appearing on input focus (help text for instance) and other in-page content appearing on focus (or hover). These are not the problems we're trying to solve and the root for this SC but suffer from the wording right now.

Also the term 'additional' is still not clear. For instance:

- Is help text for forms primary or additional? We have a SC 3.3.2 telling us it's mandatory at times (and thus primary?!) but I can choose to put it in a popover (info button) of directly underneath an input field or only show it on focus. So, when I put primary content in a popover, does this SC applies? Or is it additional content (which is then not essential?!) but mandatory from SC 3.3.2?!

- Is content / text in an <aside> element (role=complementary) additional or primary? If additional / complementary but as a designer / UX person I decide to put it in the <main> element in a tabs/finger tabs component, does it suddenly become primary although it has the same function?

I guess additional is not seen as an equivalent of popover (over-the-top) of the current page / content because that's just a design choice and doesn't make content primary OR additional.
It's even very easy to put primary content in a popover and we have the same root problem for this SC but it will pass.

From: Abma, J.D. (Jake)
Sent: maandag 8 januari 2018 7:51
To: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>; Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>; David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>; Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Issue 650 Does the Hover or focus SC apply to tabbed interfaces?

The note does indeed say  “and other nonmodal popups” but  it continues with "which display on hover and focus ARE EXAMPLES of additional content covered by this criterion." and not exclusively "nonmodal popups" so why not in-page content?

Also you could indeed read "additional content" that way but also in other ways, so a clear definition is highly recommended.

My suggestion would be to exclusively connect this SC to popups (think this is why the SC is there anyway) or exempt​ "in-page" content (with a definition... :-)


From: Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com<mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com>>
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 10:08 PM
To: Abma, J.D. (Jake); Andrew Kirkpatrick; David MacDonald; Patrick H. Lauke
Subject: RE: Issue 650 Does the Hover or focus SC apply to tabbed interfaces?

I read “additional content” as something that is added to the page, essentially over-the-top of the current page.

If you take a bit of content away and put something else in it’s place, that is new, but not additional. The note does say “and other nonmodal popups” so I don’t think many will read it as applying to tabs.



From: Abma, J.D. (

About the definition for “additional content”, as can be read in my other comments, it's not present and what's present doesn't fit with the SC.

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Received on Tuesday, 9 January 2018 07:47:42 UTC

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