Re: CFC - Accessible Authentication and issue responses (-1, objection)

Hi John

In the study, all users were able to complete the task on the first try.
There was a slight variation in IRI between the first try and later tries,
but it is in milliseconds... we already require all timed inputs to be
extendable by 10x the default. It seems that this covers the issues found
in this study. There is nothing in the study suggesting the participants
could not complete the task.

Cheers,
David MacDonald



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On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 10:55 AM, Rochford, John <john.rochford@umassmed.edu>
wrote:

> Hi David,
>
>
>
> My responses are within your message text below.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> John Rochford <http://bit.ly/profile-rj>
> UMass Medical School/E.K. Shriver Center
> Director, INDEX Program
> Instructor, Family Medicine & Community Health
> www.DisabilityInfo.org
> Twitter: @ClearHelper <https://twitter.com/clearhelper>
>
>
>
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> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 31, 2017 8:29 AM
> *To:* lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>
> *Cc:* Rochford, John <john.rochford@umassmed.edu>; WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>;
> Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
> *Subject:* Re: CFC - Accessible Authentication and issue responses (-1,
> objection)
>
>
>
> Hi John
>
>
>
> I've read through the study I believe you are referring to in “Clinical
> Assessment, Computerized Methods, and Instrumentation” by F.J. Maarse,
> L.J.M. Mulder, A.N. Brand, A.E. Akkerman.
>
>
>
> John: I am impressed and pleased you reviewed the study in detail.
>
>
>
> It is an interesting study. It appears to me that all of the participants
> in the study were able to complete the task of copying numbers. There were
> no brick walls in this particular study.
>
>
>
> The Inter Response Intervals (IRI) were longer for those with short term
> memory loss it also found that as the exercise is repeated the digits shift
> from short term to long term memory and response times become quicker.
>
>
>
> John: A reasonable corollary then is that practice with a set of numbers
> (password) is needed to quickly enter it.
>
>
>
> Therefore it is reasoned that the IRI can be used to measure short term
> memory capacity.
>
> The variation in IRI was from 400ms to 1100 ms. This is the amount of time
> taken between typing one number and the next. In this study there were 5
> numbers in each string.
>
>
>
> If there were 20 numbers in the string which is the outer limit of most
> passwords, I think it could be reasoned that the slowest participant would
> have taken 2200 ms or 22 seconds give that they were memorizing one number
> at a time and copying it.
>
>
>
> John: Even if so, it’s unlikely the “slowest participant” could achieve
> that without prior practice (repetition).
>
>
>
> It appears to me from this study that the issue is not about the inability
> to copy digits, but rather how long it takes to copy. The important concern
> appears to be about *how long* a user has to enter the number. Would it
> make sense that this become the requirement for this SC... that users have
> enough time to enter the information, and if so, is it not covered in SC
> 2.2.1 "timing adjustable" which requires that users have up to 10 times the
> default of any timed event, including password entry?
>
>
>
> If the proposal is that it is not possible to hold one number in short
> term memory, and therefore transcribing is a brick wall, then I think we
> need another study to demonstrate that, as in this one all participants
> could transcribe the numbers.
>
>
>
> John: It seems your example assumes a user has already engaged in the
> practice needed to enter a password quickly. Also, it may not take into
> account the burden of practice for multiple passwords. I think our SC must
> not have these dependencies.
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel:  613.235.4902 <(613)%20235-4902>
>
> LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
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>
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>
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>
> On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 6:37 AM, lisa.seeman <lisa.seeman@zoho.com> wrote:
>
> 0
>
>
>
> I am happy to see this in WCAG but I am objecting to the level AAA
>
>
>
> This is a complete block for many people with disabilities. It is
> implementable and testable, and therefor should be level A.
>
>
>
>
>
> All the best
>
> Lisa Seeman
>
> LinkedIn <http://il.linkedin.com/in/lisaseeman/>, Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/SeemanLisa>
>
>
>
>
> ---- On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 18:26:26 +0200 *Rochford<john.rochford@umassmed.edu
> <john.rochford@umassmed.edu>>* wrote ----
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> -1 for me.
>
>
>
> Recalling and transcribing information involve working memory. People with
> cognitive disabilities suffer from deficits in short term and long term
> working memory. They cannot even copy information because, by the time they
> look away from the input field, look at the info, then look back to the
> input field, they have forgotten the information.
>
>
>
> For empirical evidence, see “Clinical Assessment, Computerized Methods,
> and Instrumentation
> <https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=lcJ4AgAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=Clinical+Assessment,+Computerized+Methods,+and+Instrumentation+%2BMaarse&ots=Af_VcE3m6C&sig=5bhGxDliGUes9JP_eaTi-oN2n90#v=onepage&q=Clinical%20Assessment%2C%20Computerized%20Methods%2C%20and%20Instrumentation%20%2BMaarse&f=false>”
> by F.J. Maarse, L.J.M. Mulder, A.N. Brand, A.E. Akkerman.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> John Rochford <http://bit.ly/profile-rj>
> UMass Medical School/E.K. Shriver Center
> Director, INDEX Program
> Instructor, Family Medicine & Community Health
> www.DisabilityInfo.org
> Twitter: @ClearHelper <https://twitter.com/clearhelper>
>
>
>
> *Confidentiality Notice:*
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>
> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
> *Sent:* Friday, December 22, 2017 10:13 AM
> *To:* Katie Haritos-Shea <ryladog@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Wilcock, Mark <mark.wilcock@atos.net>; WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> *Subject:* Re: CFC - Accessible Authentication and issue responses
>
>
>
> +1
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *CanAdapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel:  613.235.4902 <(613)%20235-4902>
>
> LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
> twitter.com/davidmacd
>
> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>
> http://www.can-adapt.com/
>
>
>
> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>
> *            Including those with disabilities*
>
>
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> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
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>
> On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Katie Haritos-Shea <ryladog@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> +1
>
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2017 5:41 AM, "Wilcock, Mark" <mark.wilcock@atos.net> wrote:
>
> +1
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com]
> *Sent:* 22 December 2017 04:55
> *To:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> *Subject:* CFC - Accessible Authentication and issue responses
> *Importance:* High
>
>
>
> Call For Consensus — ends Tuesday January 2nd at 11:45PM Boston time.
>
>
>
> The Working Group has discussed a change to the note in the Accessible
> Authentication SC.
>
>
>
> The specific changes are detailed in this pull request (
> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/pull/646)  and can be viewed at
> http://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/accessible-authentication-
> update/guidelines/index.html#accessible-authentication.
>
>
>
> Issue responses: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/2-2-6_Revision
>
>
>
>  Call minutes: https://www.w3.org/2017/12/21-ag-minutes.html#item03
>
>
>
> If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have not
> been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you “not
> being able to live with” this decision, please let the group know before
> the CfC deadline.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> AWK
>
>
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
>
> Adobe
>
>
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com
>
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