- From: David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com>
- Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2017 17:25:27 -0500
- To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
- Cc: "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, "Repsher, Stephen J" <stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAAdDpDZs5JHPdd=CDpA3qNUwW9oR6gdWFcXMQT9g8Ds=WwswWw@mail.gmail.com>
I agree with the note, and I can live without "essential". I would in that case interpret "content of functionality" to not include minor problems that don't interfere with getting the information and using the page ... Cheers, David MacDonald *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* Mobile: 613.806.9005 LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> twitter.com/davidmacd GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> * Adapting the web to all users* * Including those with disabilities* If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi David and all, > > As mentioned on issue 576, based on an evaluation of 67 pages [1] > tested between July 25 and August 3, 2017 that included top 50 Alexa > pages and some smaller pages, the combined metrics specified in the > Adapting Text SC should be feasible in WCAG 2.1 for HTML documents. > Spacing is able to adapt without loss of content or functionality > across a wide range of sites. In addition, recently 9 mega menus [2] > were tested and passed the SC. > > As you know the Working Group will be going through the implementation > process and demonstrating the implementability of all the new SCs. If > you know of examples in the wild of text in UI - (e.g. menus, etc) > where it would not be possible to meet the SC, please add them to > issue 576. We can tag that issue with the "Implementation Follow-up" > label to ensure that it is re-reviewed at that point in the process. > > But with that said, David, could you live with the current text that > removes the word "essential", if we added an editor's note such as: > > "Editors Note: The Working Group seeks examples in the wild of text > content outside of blocks of text where it would be impossible to meet > this SC. The SC's scope may be narrowed based upon implementation > testing." > > For reference the current proposed SC text [3] reads: > > <quote> > Success Criterion 1.4.13 Text Spacing > > If the technologies being used allow the user agent [4] to set text > [5] style properties [6], then no loss of content or functionality > occurs by setting all of the following and by changing no other style > property: > > * Line height (line spacing) to at least 1.5 times the font size; > * Spacing underneath paragraphs to at least 2 times the font size; > * Letter spacing (tracking) to at least 0.12 times the font size; > * Word spacing to at least 0.16 times the font size. > > <end quote> > > Thank you. > > Kindest Regards, > Laura > > [1] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Results_of_Bookmarklet_ > Tests_for_Issue_78 > [2]https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/576#issuecomment-345843140 > [3] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13#SC_Text > [4] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-user-agent > [5] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-text > [6] https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-style-properties > > On 11/14/17, David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com> wrote: > >> My concern is that “nothing important is lost” risks making the SC not > > reliably testable. I would prefer to avoid such language. By doing so, > > accessibility is also enhanced. > > > > I agree that testability is always a concern. However, without a > qualifier, > > then any minor artifacts in the transition will fail WCAG. If we remove > > essential and don't replace it with another qualifier, then I think it > > should be limited to "blocks of text" > > https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/576 > > > > We've had 2 reputable commenters who are veteran full time accessibility > > professionals and testers, ask that this SC get changed to "Blocks of > > Text", > > Jan Richards of the IDRC <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/551>, > and > > Aiden > > from TD Bank <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/469>. > > I'd like to add my voice to that concern. I was the author of SC 1.4.8 in > > WCAG 2.0. And the "blocks of text" language was carefully negotiated, I > > never could have got through without that. I think we should carefully > > consider "Blocks of Text". Without that, there are a lot of variables, > and > > possible confusion. It might become a stumbling block for the SC in CR. > > > > > > Cheers, > > David MacDonald > > > > > > > > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > > Mobile: 613.806.9005 > > > > LinkedIn > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > > > twitter.com/davidmacd > > > > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> > > > > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> > > > > > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > > * Including those with disabilities* > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > > > On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 9:37 AM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote: > > > >> My concern is that “nothing important is lost” risks making the SC not > >> reliably testable. I would prefer to avoid such language. By doing so, > >> accessibility is also enhanced. > >> > >> > >> > >> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david@can-adapt.com] > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:30 AM > >> *To:* Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> > >> *Cc:* Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>; White, Jason J < > >> jjwhite@ets.org>; Repsher, Stephen J <stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com>; > WCAG > >> <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> > >> *Subject:* Re: Deal with the word "essential" now or tackle it later? > >> > >> > >> > >> I don't think we want to loose the idea that "some" loss of content and > >> functionality is acceptable as long as nothing important is lost. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Cheers, > >> David MacDonald > >> > >> > >> > >> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > >> > >> Mobile: 613.806.9005 <(613)%20806-9005> > >> > >> LinkedIn > >> > >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdavidmacdonald100&data= > 02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254% > 7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata= > Lir2vskakn6MX2frF8w6y4JbAcCu8fxJ9Qwb9Cgb300%3D&reserved=0> > >> > >> twitter.com/davidmacd > >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidmacd&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org% > 7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e > 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=Elps11ImTbCTeuk3mmmINFY5H7ANDz > aJTZK9gD1liPA%3D&reserved=0> > >> > >> GitHub > >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FDavidMacDonald&data=02%7C01% > 7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254% > 7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata= > DAmBgc3O%2FNy3QlufeouMu33tedymPTWeOBo%2B1%2BcI6AQ%3D&reserved=0> > >> > >> www.Can-Adapt.com > >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.can-adapt.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org% > 7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e > 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=KV0lh06nLBDfm1q2sdulGjq6Qe6IbO > LEHuOzTuhJ8AA%3D&reserved=0> > >> > >> > >> > >> * Adapting the web to all users* > >> > >> * Including those with disabilities* > >> > >> > >> > >> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidmacd.com%2Fdisclaimer.html&data=02% > 7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254% > 7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata= > SHmjoeBrQIoI1I3kn%2BLYFG8CFgOhY39ru0q3kw4PL%2BE%3D&reserved=0> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Laura Carlson < > >> laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Jason, David, Andrew, Steve, and all, > >> > >> Regarding the latest proposed adapting text SC text, Jason wrote [1]: > >> >> It doesn't eliminate the use of the word "essential", which is not > >> >> here > >> used in accordance with its WCAG definition. > >> > >> David wrote [2]: > >> > That word is in both proposals so I think we should consider that > >> separately... perhaps you can file an issue on github. > >> > >> It seems we already have an open issue for Use of "essential" for > >> several SCs including adapting text. It is #372 [3]. > >> > >> Andrew, Issue 372 wasn't listed for Adapting Text SC (or any of the > >> others) in your November 6 email [4] so I didn't add to the the Wiki > >> page with the rest of proposals for resolving Adapting Text issues > >> [5]. Should I add it to the Wiki page? Or should we deal with Issue > >> 372 later? > >> > >> On September 25, Steve commented in Issue 372 regarding the use of the > >> word "essential" in the Adapting Text SC. He said [6]: > >> > >> "The criterion refers to "no loss of essential content or > >> functionality". The word seems to have been introduced by @awkawk in a > >> comment way back in March [7], but I could not find any rationale for > >> its inclusion in the language (i.e. an example of content loss that > >> would be acceptable). Given this, and the fact that both Resize Text > >> and Zoom Content refer to "loss of content or functionality" without > >> using essential, I propose to simply remove the word from this SC." > >> > >> Andrew and all, would you be able to live with removing the word > >> essential from the SC? > >> > >> Thank you. > >> > >> Kindest Regards, > >> Laura > >> > >> [1] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDec/ > 0376.html > >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > https%3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai- > gl%2F2017OctDec%2F0376.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org% > 7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e > 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=gPwzB5W4eBS3GtUOFn3zkoFkL6xahJ > J4%2BmlC%2F%2FVxkAo%3D&reserved=0> > >> [2]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDec/0374.html > >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > https%3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai- > gl%2F2017OctDec%2F0374.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org% > 7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e > 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=cT0UhrvKsF0t5IUWBk8F6xRpIy% > 2Fqh9ncj7M3%2BxJrS8s%3D&reserved=0> > >> [3] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/372 > >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F372& > data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254% > 7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata= > gagg72um8D90V1Wo59oTQu4pdDddMx19x%2Fn0a413tPk%3D&reserved=0> > >> [4] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017OctDec/ > 0313.html > >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > https%3A%2F%2Flists.w3.org%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai- > gl%2F2017OctDec%2F0313.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org% > 7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e > 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=XLm%2FxtYIeB3ZqrZaYDfGxWvBj0okkd2Q > UBcL3Vu6%2Fo0%3D&reserved=0> > >> [5] > >> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Comment_Summary_1-4-13 > >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FComment_ > Summary_1-4-13&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org% > 7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e > 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=5uk17yXjWGErchrzKJvhwXLoJYne6G > DY5U6OZ536r2M%3D&reserved=0> > >> [6] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/372#issuecomment-331950411 > >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F372% > 23issuecomment-331950411&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org% > 7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e > 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=JISpZMF9yF9tGJGJd5Xu8BhDIqu% > 2BogD01ukBRb%2BxOmE%3D&reserved=0> > >> [7] https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/78#issuecomment-289792275 > >> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Fissues%2F78% > 23issuecomment-289792275&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org% > 7C8cdf0413de084479e06408d52b6c3254%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e > 9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636462666054837116&sdata=sspSef% > 2BcIJClGUIh2lOnmT4YzSm4IkJeCJ4YaA1RiZI%3D&reserved=0> > >> > >> -- > >> Laura L. Carlson > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or > >> confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for > whom > >> it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this > >> e-mail > >> in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, > or > >> take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and > >> delete > >> it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. > >> > >> Thank you for your compliance. > >> ------------------------------ > >> > > > > > -- > Laura L. Carlson >
Received on Friday, 24 November 2017 22:25:55 UTC