Re: Revert Adapting text language replacing "adapt" with "change"

> "by setting all of the following, without setting any other style
property"

That would work for me.. it is similar to an earlier recommendation I had
made,

Cheers,
David MacDonald



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On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 11:37 AM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote:

> So, would "by setting all of the following, without setting any other
> style property" address the concern?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Repsher, Stephen J [mailto:stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 1:21 PM
> > To: White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>; Laura Carlson
> > <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>; Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
> > Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com>;
> > Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> > Subject: RE: Revert Adapting text language replacing "adapt" with
> "change"
> >
> >
> > "Setting" seems reasonable to me. Regarding "only", do you mean "setting
> all of
> > the following, without changing other text style properties"?
> > [Steve] Yes and no.  I mean without changing **any** other property.  In
> other
> > words, the user agent should be able to make those 4 changes alone
> without
> > loss, and if other changes are required (e.g. container sizing), that
> defeats the
> > purpose of the SC.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Repsher, Stephen J [mailto:stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 11:02 AM
> > > To: White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>; Laura Carlson
> > > <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>; Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
> > > Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; David MacDonald <david@can-
> > adapt.com>;
> > > Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> > > Subject: RE: Revert Adapting text language replacing "adapt" with
> "change"
> > >
> > > Alright, how about just using "set" as the verb then...
> > >
> > > "If the technologies being used allow the user agent to set text style
> > > properties, then no loss of essential content or functionality occurs
> > > by setting all of the following:"
> > >
> > > That should fix that problem, but I'm inclined to say we need the word
> > > "only" in there somewhere given the discussion even amongst ourselves
> > > had to reiterate it.  I had tossed that in there a while back but not
> > > sure why it was removed and would have to check the GitHub thread.
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: White, Jason J [mailto:jjwhite@ets.org]
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 10:44 AM
> > > To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>; Andrew Kirkpatrick
> > > <akirkpat@adobe.com>
> > > Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; David MacDonald <david@can-
> > adapt.com>;
> > > Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> > > Subject: RE: Revert Adapting text language replacing "adapt" with
> "change"
> > >
> > > I remain concerned that David's proposal doesn't address Andrew's case
> > > in which no "change" is necessary, because the content already meets
> > > the four requirements listed in the SC. I suppose one could say that
> > > there's a trivial null transformation involved (i.e., no change could
> > > still be treated as a "change"), which is however counter-intuitive
> > > and a very subtle - indeed dubious - interpretation of the text.
> > >
> > > I'm leaning toward saying, no, I can't live with David's revert.
> > >
> > > Perhaps "ensuring all of the following" would be better, where
> "ensuring"
> > > includes either changing or leaving alone if the author has already
> > > met the specified thresholds.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Laura Carlson [mailto:laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 10:05 AM
> > > > To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>
> > > > Cc: White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>; WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>;
> > > > David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com>; Alastair Campbell
> > > > <acampbell@nomensa.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: Revert Adapting text language replacing "adapt" with
> "change"
> > > >
> > > > Hi Andrew,
> > > >
> > > > Text at the end of our November 13, 2017 meeting:
> > > >
> > > > "If the technologies being used allow the user agent to change text
> > > > style properties, the following can be achieved with no loss of
> > > > essential content or
> > > > functionality:
> > > > * the 4 things
> > > >
> > > > David's proposed revert [5]:
> > > >
> > > > "If the technologies being used allow the user agent to change text
> > > > style properties, then no loss of essential content or functionality
> > > > occurs by changing all of the following:"
> > > > * the 4 things
> > > >
> > > > Thank you.
> > > >
> > > > Kindest Regards,
> > > > Laura
> > > >
> > > > [5]
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flis
> > > > ts
> > > > .w3.o
> > > > rg%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-
> > > >
> > >
> > gl%2F2017OctDec%2F0368.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C700
> > > >
> > >
> > b333d209b412a9c1a08d52d03766a%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%
> > > >
> > >
> > 7C0%7C0%7C636464415244080402&sdata=696nDSdTQHKxkuSw3lWGUqVOSX6
> > > > eR8l86ZDq3Vgw47Q%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > > On 11/16/17, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com> wrote:
> > > > > Laura,
> > > > > I’m sure that the options were clearly laid out somewhere in the
> > > > > thread, but I don’t have time to find it. Can you clearly lay out
> > > > > “before” and “proposed” options?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > AWK
> > > > >
> > > > > Andrew Kirkpatrick
> > > > > Group Product Manager, Accessibility Adobe
> > > > >
> > > > > akirkpat@adobe.com
> > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftw
> > > > > it
> > > > > te
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > r.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7C700b333d209b412
> > > > a9c1a
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > 08d52d03766a%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C63646
> > > > 4415244
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > 080402&sdata=kszdaxRJsWVstas19rZOJnWmR3UB7bdcevZEcLFajJg%3D&reserv
> > > > ed=0
> > > > >
> > > > > On 11/16/17, 09:56, "Laura Carlson" <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >     Hello everyone,
> > > > >
> > > > >     I wrote:
> > > > >     > Andrew, Jason, and everyone else, can you live with
> reverting the
> > > > >     > adapting text language by replacing "adapt" with "change" as
> David
> > > > >     > suggested? [5]
> > > > >
> > > > >     Please let me rephrase that.
> > > > >
> > > > >     After reviewing the video demonstration, draft technique, and
> test
> > > > >     results can anyone not live with reverting the adapting text
> language
> > > > >     by replacing "adapt" with "change" to what David suggested?
> > > > >
> > > > >     Thank you.
> > > > >
> > > > >     Best Regards,
> > > > >     Laura
> > > > >
> > > > >     On 11/15/17, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >     > Hello Andrew, Jason, and all,
> > > > >     >
> > > > >     > Andrew wrote [1]:
> > > > >     >> It would help me to understand exactly what steps you
> > > > > envision a user
> > > > >     >> would need to
> > > > >     >> follow to achieve the following four items, and provide an
> > > > > example page
> > > > >     >> that shows
> > > > >     >> this working as you envision it.
> > > > >     >
> > > > >     > Alastair provided a video demonstration of what a person
> > > > > would need to
> > > > >     > do to test for the four items on the BBC and Adobe
> > > > > homepages.[2] Thank
> > > > >     > you, Alastair!
> > > > >     >
> > > > >     > For that step-by-step process in text, please check our draft
> > > > >     > technique "Allowing for Spacing Override". [3]
> > > > >     >
> > > > >     > For results of the testing that we completed using that
> step-by-step
> > > > >     > procedure, please check the "Results of Bookmarklet Tests
> for Issue
> > > > >     > 78".[4] Between July 25 and August 3, 2017, 67 pages were
> tested. If
> > > > >     > the spacing parameters supplied by the author already meets
> > > > > or exceeds
> > > > >     > the SC's specified metrics, the content passes the test
> using the
> > > > >     > bookmarklet.
> > > > >     >
> > > > >     > Does the video demonstration, draft technique, and test
> results
> > > > >     > provide the clarity needed?
> > > > >     >
> > > > >     > Andrew, Jason, and everyone else, can you live with
> reverting the
> > > > >     > adapting text language by replacing "adapt" with "change" as
> David
> > > > >     > suggested? [5]
> > > > >     >
> > > > >     > Thank you.
> > > > >     >
> > > > >     > Kindest Regards,
> > > > >     > Laura
> > > > >     >
> > > > >     > [1]
> > > > >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flis
> > > > ts
> > > > .w3.o
> > > > rg%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-
> > > >
> > >
> > gl%2F2017OctDec%2F0370.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca5e5bb7503ee418633
> > > >
> > >
> > a508d52d023100%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636
> > > >
> > >
> > 464409791358570&sdata=DIMiABzs3Pd1HEAQZI5t%2FQxTAeaXeqyT%2FCwpbB
> > > > %2FNnZE%3D&reserved=0
> > > > >     > [2]
> > > > >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flis
> > > > ts
> > > > .w3.o
> > > > rg%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-
> > > >
> > >
> > gl%2F2017OctDec%2F0373.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca5e5bb7503ee418633
> > > >
> > >
> > a508d52d023100%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636
> > > >
> > >
> > 464409791358570&sdata=03fGYgLdaQfwsqHHd0EmAIZloK5iSz3E%2B3NWWLN
> > > > 3QEY%3D&reserved=0
> > > > >     > [3]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.
> > > >
> > >
> > org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FAllowing_for_Spacing_Override&data=02%7C01
> > > >
> > >
> > %7C%7Ca5e5bb7503ee418633a508d52d023100%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c
> > > >
> > >
> > 178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636464409791358570&sdata=NejhMNltxv0VwBtv1jIK
> > > > s90MuWL39OtfN21DaTPf3X8%3D&reserved=0
> > > > >     > [4]
> > > > >     >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.
> > > >
> > >
> > org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FResults_of_Bookmarklet_Tests_for_Issue_78&da
> > > >
> > >
> > ta=02%7C01%7C%7Ca5e5bb7503ee418633a508d52d023100%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34
> > > >
> > >
> > 438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636464409791358570&sdata=tc9Wjhg3
> > > > 1KL11sE1TGIKLkx7ghxQtbgnkWbqS3Clcmg%3D&reserved=0
> > > > >     > [5]
> > > > >
> > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flis
> > > > ts
> > > > .w3.o
> > > > rg%2FArchives%2FPublic%2Fw3c-wai-
> > > >
> > >
> > gl%2F2017OctDec%2F0368.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca5e5bb7503ee418633
> > > >
> > >
> > a508d52d023100%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636
> > > >
> > >
> > 464409791358570&sdata=hNH%2BJRMlEOz9uzbU8JpGlnmg49MxnU8n19Y0JRd
> > > > Grp4%3D&reserved=0
> > > > >     >
> > > > >     > --
> > > > >     > Laura L. Carlson
> > > > >     >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >     --
> > > > >     Laura L. Carlson
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Laura L. Carlson
> > >
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