Re: CFC - NEW Proposed definition for 'Programatic Notification'

Feel free to iterate it as needed and then it can be returned to the 
group as a fresh CFC.

Thanks

Josh

David MacDonald wrote:
> Should I amend the pull request based on the amendment recommendations 
> from Jason, John and Steve?
>
> I think there is general momentum, but just some iteration to get the 
> wording right.
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
> *Can**Adapt**Solutions Inc.*
>
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> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Joshue O Connor <josh@interaccess.ie 
> <mailto:josh@interaccess.ie>> wrote:
>
>     AGWG’ers,
>
>     As we have received some negative feedback leading up to this CfC
>     and responses indicating that group members could live with a
>     modified version of this definition -  this CfC is not agreed on
>     as a consensus opinion of the working group.
>
>     This decision will be recorded at
>     https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Decisions
>     <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FDecisions&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1ab6006ec2be48e88f9008d4a210961e%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636311639507586899&sdata=IafGoKjeQf7zBqxVj8m380hh8%2BWgU1VfPa2tZjq0Bx8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Josh
>
>
>
>     John Foliot wrote:
>>     -1
>>
>>     I have serious concerns about this, as the current draft
>>     definition appears to address non-sighted users, but the draft
>>     definition appears to also exclude low-vision users using extreme
>>     magnification (as well as others), when it states:
>>
>>         Notification set by the content which _can be announced_ to
>>         the user _without virtual or actual focus_
>>
>>
>>      1. This appears to presume the presence (and requirement) of a
>>         screen reader or other text-to-speech function ("announced",
>>         and "Example: a screen reader announces to a user...") [i.e.
>>         issue with the term "announced"]
>>
>>      2. The lack of visual or actual focus potentially excludes
>>         low-vision users who may not be using TTS; it also may have
>>         an impact on some users with cognition issues who may not
>>         realize that an action performed in one region of the page
>>         updates content elsewhere (a requirement of SC 1.3.1:
>>         "/...//to ensure that information and relationships that are
>>         implied by visual or auditory formatting are preserved when
>>         the presentation format changes./")
>>
>>      3. This definition also appears to potentially condone not
>>         meeting the requirements of Success Criterion 2.4.7 Focus
>>         Visible ("Notification set by the content...without virtual
>>         or actual focus"). Granted, we see shopping-cart updates and
>>         similar widgets that routinely have this issue, however I am
>>         concerned about a Definition that appears to accept that as "OK".
>>
>>      4. It is unclear what the distinction is between "Programmatic
>>         Notification" and "Programmatically Determinable", which states:
>>
>>                   ("./..determined by software from author-supplied
>>         data provided in a way that different user agents
>>         <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-user-agent>, including
>>         assistive technologies
>>         <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-assistive-technology>//,
>>         can extract and present this information to users in
>>         different modalities./")
>>
>>         ...except for the fact that the original definition address
>>         alternative modalities, which the proposed definition does
>>         not address.
>>
>>
>>     To be clear:
>>     _
>>     _
>>     *I support the proposed draft SC (3.2.7 Change of Content)
>>     advancing to WCAG 2.1, this is not the issue. *
>>
>>     However, conceptually linked to this "*Understandable*" SC is the
>>     additional requirement that any Change of Content *also* needs to
>>     be "*Perceivable*" to all users as well. The current definition
>>     of *Programmatic notification *however actively confuses this
>>     requirement when it suggests that 'notification' would only be
>>     auditory in nature, and that the lack of visible indication is
>>     acceptable.
>>
>>
>>     JF
>>
>>     On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Joshue O Connor
>>     <josh@interaccess.ie <mailto:josh@interaccess.ie>> wrote:
>>
>>         Call For Consensus — ends Friday October 6th at 1:00pmBoston
>>         time.
>>
>>         The Working Group has a new proposed definition of
>>         "Programmatic Notification" as found in the Change of Content
>>         SC.
>>         https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#change-of-content
>>         <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#change-of-content>
>>
>>         The DFN text is:
>>
>>         <dfn>
>>         Programmatic notification.
>>
>>         Notification set by the content which can be announced to the
>>         user without virtual or actual focus, using methods that are
>>         supported by user agents, including assistive technologies.
>>
>>         Example: a screen reader announces to a user that their
>>         shopping cart has been updated after they select an item for
>>         purchase.
>>         </dfn>
>>
>>         And can be viewed here:
>>         https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/commit/b5c68e17f82feb0cdbbafc273f245b136a7445c4
>>         <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/commit/b5c68e17f82feb0cdbbafc273f245b136a7445c4>
>>
>>
>>         This was discussed on todays call:
>>         https://www.w3.org/2017/10/03-ag-minutes.html#item09
>>         <https://www.w3.org/2017/10/03-ag-minutes.html#item09>
>>
>>         This definition was previously missing from WCAG 2.1 and the
>>         proposal is to add it.
>>
>>         If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position
>>         that have not been discussed already and feel that those
>>         concerns result in you “not being able to live with” this
>>         decision, please let the group know before the CfC deadline.
>>
>>         Thanks
>>
>>         -- 
>>         Joshue O Connor
>>         Director | InterAccess.ie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     John Foliot
>>     Principal Accessibility Strategist
>>     Deque Systems Inc.
>>     john.foliot@deque.com <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>
>>
>>     Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>
>     -- 
>     Joshue O Connor
>     Director | InterAccess.ie
>
>

-- 
Joshue O Connor
Director | InterAccess.ie

Received on Friday, 6 October 2017 17:54:05 UTC