- From: Joshue O Connor <josh@interaccess.ie>
- Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2017 18:53:08 +0100
- To: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
- CC: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <59D7C304.4000509@interaccess.ie>
Feel free to iterate it as needed and then it can be returned to the
group as a fresh CFC.
Thanks
Josh
David MacDonald wrote:
> Should I amend the pull request based on the amendment recommendations
> from Jason, John and Steve?
>
> I think there is general momentum, but just some iteration to get the
> wording right.
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
> *Can**Adapt**Solutions Inc.*
>
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> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Joshue O Connor <josh@interaccess.ie
> <mailto:josh@interaccess.ie>> wrote:
>
> AGWG’ers,
>
> As we have received some negative feedback leading up to this CfC
> and responses indicating that group members could live with a
> modified version of this definition - this CfC is not agreed on
> as a consensus opinion of the working group.
>
> This decision will be recorded at
> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Decisions
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FGL%2Fwiki%2FDecisions&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1ab6006ec2be48e88f9008d4a210961e%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636311639507586899&sdata=IafGoKjeQf7zBqxVj8m380hh8%2BWgU1VfPa2tZjq0Bx8%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> John Foliot wrote:
>> -1
>>
>> I have serious concerns about this, as the current draft
>> definition appears to address non-sighted users, but the draft
>> definition appears to also exclude low-vision users using extreme
>> magnification (as well as others), when it states:
>>
>> Notification set by the content which _can be announced_ to
>> the user _without virtual or actual focus_
>>
>>
>> 1. This appears to presume the presence (and requirement) of a
>> screen reader or other text-to-speech function ("announced",
>> and "Example: a screen reader announces to a user...") [i.e.
>> issue with the term "announced"]
>>
>> 2. The lack of visual or actual focus potentially excludes
>> low-vision users who may not be using TTS; it also may have
>> an impact on some users with cognition issues who may not
>> realize that an action performed in one region of the page
>> updates content elsewhere (a requirement of SC 1.3.1:
>> "/...//to ensure that information and relationships that are
>> implied by visual or auditory formatting are preserved when
>> the presentation format changes./")
>>
>> 3. This definition also appears to potentially condone not
>> meeting the requirements of Success Criterion 2.4.7 Focus
>> Visible ("Notification set by the content...without virtual
>> or actual focus"). Granted, we see shopping-cart updates and
>> similar widgets that routinely have this issue, however I am
>> concerned about a Definition that appears to accept that as "OK".
>>
>> 4. It is unclear what the distinction is between "Programmatic
>> Notification" and "Programmatically Determinable", which states:
>>
>> ("./..determined by software from author-supplied
>> data provided in a way that different user agents
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-user-agent>, including
>> assistive technologies
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#dfn-assistive-technology>//,
>> can extract and present this information to users in
>> different modalities./")
>>
>> ...except for the fact that the original definition address
>> alternative modalities, which the proposed definition does
>> not address.
>>
>>
>> To be clear:
>> _
>> _
>> *I support the proposed draft SC (3.2.7 Change of Content)
>> advancing to WCAG 2.1, this is not the issue. *
>>
>> However, conceptually linked to this "*Understandable*" SC is the
>> additional requirement that any Change of Content *also* needs to
>> be "*Perceivable*" to all users as well. The current definition
>> of *Programmatic notification *however actively confuses this
>> requirement when it suggests that 'notification' would only be
>> auditory in nature, and that the lack of visible indication is
>> acceptable.
>>
>>
>> JF
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Joshue O Connor
>> <josh@interaccess.ie <mailto:josh@interaccess.ie>> wrote:
>>
>> Call For Consensus — ends Friday October 6th at 1:00pmBoston
>> time.
>>
>> The Working Group has a new proposed definition of
>> "Programmatic Notification" as found in the Change of Content
>> SC.
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#change-of-content
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#change-of-content>
>>
>> The DFN text is:
>>
>> <dfn>
>> Programmatic notification.
>>
>> Notification set by the content which can be announced to the
>> user without virtual or actual focus, using methods that are
>> supported by user agents, including assistive technologies.
>>
>> Example: a screen reader announces to a user that their
>> shopping cart has been updated after they select an item for
>> purchase.
>> </dfn>
>>
>> And can be viewed here:
>> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/commit/b5c68e17f82feb0cdbbafc273f245b136a7445c4
>> <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/commit/b5c68e17f82feb0cdbbafc273f245b136a7445c4>
>>
>>
>> This was discussed on todays call:
>> https://www.w3.org/2017/10/03-ag-minutes.html#item09
>> <https://www.w3.org/2017/10/03-ag-minutes.html#item09>
>>
>> This definition was previously missing from WCAG 2.1 and the
>> proposal is to add it.
>>
>> If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position
>> that have not been discussed already and feel that those
>> concerns result in you “not being able to live with” this
>> decision, please let the group know before the CfC deadline.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --
>> Joshue O Connor
>> Director | InterAccess.ie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Foliot
>> Principal Accessibility Strategist
>> Deque Systems Inc.
>> john.foliot@deque.com <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>
>>
>> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
>
> --
> Joshue O Connor
> Director | InterAccess.ie
>
>
--
Joshue O Connor
Director | InterAccess.ie
Received on Friday, 6 October 2017 17:54:05 UTC