Re: CFC - Proposed definition for 'Programatic Notification'

Hi all,

David is right - apologies for wrong URL.

I've sent a new CFC to the list with the subject "CFC - NEW Proposed 
definition for 'Programatic Notification''.

Please comment against that.

Josh

David MacDonald wrote:
> The link in the CFC is going the the wrong SC. It is for Change of 
> Content not Purpose of controls.
>
> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#purpose-of-controls 
> <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#purpose-of-controls>
>
> It should be
> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#change-of-content
>
>
> I think we have to throw this CFC thread out and reissue it. It has 
> caused terrible confusion.
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
> *Can**Adapt**Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel:  613.235.4902
>
> LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
> twitter.com/davidmacd <http://twitter.com/davidmacd>
>
> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>
> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>
> /  Adapting the web to *all* users/
>
> /            Including those with disabilities/
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy 
> policy <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 3:25 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca 
> <mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
>
>     I seems that running this CFC definition when it is disassociated
>     from the SC to which it applies has caused confusion.
>
>
>     >  @jonathanThe definition seems to allow for using the speech API
>     in a browser to speak something.  This type of “announcement” may
>     work for some users but doesn’t seem like a solution that works
>     for different types of users with disabilities.  A programmatic
>     notification should be something that could be converted into
>     different formats – speech, braille, pop-up, vibration, etc.  If I
>     am misunderstanding then I’d be happy to change my vote.
>
>     This SC is all about helping those screen reader users. It has
>     been that from the beginning. It's a narrow and important  requirement
>     ​ and it was approved on that basis​
>     .
>     ​The main way of meeting it is using aria-live. I'm kind of
>     surprised we're talking about widening the SC like this at this
>     late date.
>
>     Widening
>     ​ it ​to other types of notifications would be a real change to it
>     and how would that be worded?
>
>     > @Steve
>     What is needed is a programmatic association given to the new content.
>
>     t
>     ​hat's in the first bullet.
>
>       * There is a programmatically determined relationship between
>         the new content and the control that triggers it;
>
>     ​
>
>     Cheers,
>     David MacDonald
>
>     *Can**Adapt**Solutions Inc.*
>
>     Tel: 613.235.4902 <tel:%28613%29%20235-4902>
>
>     LinkedIn
>     <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
>     twitter.com/davidmacd <http://twitter.com/davidmacd>
>
>     GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>
>     www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>
>     /  Adapting the web to *all* users/
>
>     /            Including those with disabilities/
>
>     If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy
>     policy <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>
>     On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Repsher, Stephen J
>     <stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com
>     <mailto:stephen.j.repsher@boeing.com>> wrote:
>
>         -1
>
>         I agree with Jonathon, and would add that his point is
>         enforced by saying “announced”, which is biased towards
>         certain users.  It also uses “notification” in the definition
>         which is a practice we should avoid.
>
>         Ultimately, I think the real solution here is to reword the SC
>         to not use such a term.  “Programmatic notification” implies
>         (and the definition doesn’t help) that content beyond the
>         “change of content” is needed, but that is not the case.  What
>         is needed is a programmatic association given to the new content.
>
>         I also find the shopping cart example confusing because it
>         seems like that is exempt by being the result of a user action.
>
>         I’m sorry I missed reviewing this in detail on the survey. 
>         This all needs further discussion in my opinion.
>
>         Steve
>
>         *From:*Jonathan Avila [mailto:jon.avila@levelaccess.com
>         <mailto:jon.avila@levelaccess.com>]
>         *Sent:* Tuesday, October 03, 2017 1:25 PM
>         *To:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
>         *Subject:* RE: CFC - Proposed definition for 'Programatic
>         Notification'
>
>         -1.  The definition seems to allow for using the speech API in
>         a browser to speak something.  This type of “announcement” may
>         work for some users but doesn’t seem like a solution that
>         works for different types of users with disabilities.  A
>         programmatic notification should be something that could be
>         converted into different formats – speech, braille, pop-up,
>         vibration, etc.  If I am misunderstanding then I’d be happy to
>         change my vote.
>
>         Jonathan
>
>         *From:*Joshue O Connor [mailto:josh@interaccess.ie]
>         *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 1:06 PM
>         *To:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
>         *Subject:* CFC - Proposed definition for 'Programatic
>         Notification'
>
>         Call For Consensus — ends Friday October 6th at 1:00pm Boston
>         time.
>
>         The Working Group has a new proposed definition of
>         "Programmatic Notification" as found in the Change of Content SC.
>         https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#purpose-of-controls
>         <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#purpose-of-controls>
>
>         The DFN text is:
>
>         <dfn>
>         Programmatic notification.
>
>         Notification set by the content which can be announced to the
>         user without virtual or actual focus, using methods that are
>         supported by user agents, including assistive technologies.
>
>         Example: a screen reader announces to a user that their
>         shopping cart has been updated after they select an item for
>         purchase.
>         </dfn>
>
>         And can be viewed here:
>         https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/commit/b5c68e17f82feb0cdbbafc273f245b136a7445c4
>         <https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/commit/b5c68e17f82feb0cdbbafc273f245b136a7445c4>
>
>
>         This was discussed on todays call:
>         https://www.w3.org/2017/10/03-ag-minutes.html#item09
>         <https://www.w3.org/2017/10/03-ag-minutes.html#item09>
>
>         This definition was previously missing from WCAG 2.1 and the
>         proposal is to add it.
>
>         If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position
>         that have not been discussed already and feel that those
>         concerns result in you “not being able to live with” this
>         decision, please let the group know before the CfC deadline.
>
>         Thanks
>
>         -- 
>         Joshue O Connor
>         Director *| InterAccess.ie *
>
>
>

-- 
Joshue O Connor
Director | InterAccess.ie