Re: CFC - Target Size (no exception) SC

Gregg,
The idea is to adopt something similar to what exists in mobile authoring guidelines for iOS and Android. In a nutshell, having small targets is a problem but having fewer small targets is less of a problem. We can’t identify a way to specify larger targets in all cases (inline text links is a notable example) so the WG felt that this was worth doing. We did discuss whether the exceptions reduced the value to a point that was not significant and the feeling was that it was still of value.

I don’t think that this is tokenism – this can have a major effect on user interfaces, even if it isn’t complete.

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe

akirkpat@adobe.com
http://twitter.com/awkawk


From: CAE-Vanderhe <gregg@raisingthefloor.org<mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org>>
Date: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 10:26
To: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>>
Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: CFC - Target Size (no exception) SC

-1  (non-consensus)

I continue to have the same problems with this as before.   Can someone help me?

Why is it so important to make an author have SOME targets on the page be large when all of the other targets (including all links in text etc) can be small.

That is like making some of the words on a page be visible but not others.     Either the page is usable or not.
If the person can use the links — they can use the rest of the page.    IF they can’t use the links — and all the other exceptions — why is it important that the other things on the page are usable.


This looks like tokenism.      Gee it would be good to do something more for this group.    Lets make part of the pages accessible to them.    I am all for accessibility - but making work for authors when it doesn’t really benefit users other than giving them access to part of a page  (and not the usually most important part) seems like work without meaning.

Can we think of something like  “all targets in HTML pages that are custom are marked such and such” .   Then a user can have their AT do things to make ALL targets bigger if they need them to be.   And their AT only needs to know if something is a target that is not usually a target ( usual targets are things like buttons, links, menus etc) because it can identify those itself.


Maybe I missed the rationale — in which case - please let me know.


Gregg



On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>> wrote:
Call For Consensus — ends Wednesday August 9th at 1:00pm Boston time.

The Working Group has reviewed and approved two new Success Criteria for inclusion in the Editor’s Draft: Target Size and Target Size (no exception), at AA and AAA respectively, with the goal of obtaining additional input external to the working group. This CFC is for the AAA version of the SC.

Call minutes: https://www.w3.org/2017/07/25-ag-minutes.html#item03<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2017%2F07%2F25-ag-minutes.html%23item03&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca436d761173d4071e80608d4de697b1d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636377992010022472&sdata=JU47urKqWYO2MtlZt%2FmJJa%2FjGvhXClnRxeVvLx4Sfos%3D&reserved=0>

The new SC can be reviewed here, in the context of the full draft:
https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/target-size_ISSUE-60/guidelines/#target-size-(no-exception)<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frawgit.com%2Fw3c%2Fwcag21%2Ftarget-size_ISSUE-60%2Fguidelines%2F%23target-size-all&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca436d761173d4071e80608d4de697b1d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636377992010022472&sdata=%2BPTPouY%2Fo2umV6VWNFCxzfZQlG%2FzyjTkRvw4Hod5r6k%3D&reserved=0>

If you have concerns about this proposed consensus position that have not been discussed already and feel that those concerns result in you “not being able to live with” this decision, please let the group know before the CfC deadline.

Thanks,
AWK

Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe

akirkpat@adobe.com<mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>
http://twitter.com/awkawk<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fawkawk&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ca436d761173d4071e80608d4de697b1d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636377992010022472&sdata=s7P7%2BRmph%2BJ0LHdkh%2Bv57BOh91eDwFV2ODHrxVWoqY0%3D&reserved=0>