Re: Question about 1.2.4 Captions (Live) (AA) and 1.2.9 Audio-only (Live) (AAA)

> Given recent advances in deep neural networks, we may eventually reach
the point at which case 2 (at least under confined circumstances) can
constitute a sufficient technique for meeting the relevant success criteria.




​Yes I think that we should not make large scale additions to WCAG 2.1
around this . I think we should wait for the technology to catch up and
hopefully OBE.


Cheers,
David MacDonald



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On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 10:22 AM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote:

> There’s a larger question here that we’ll probably need to address at some
> stage as to the circumstances in which automatic captioning tools, image
> description tools, etc., can serve to satisfy WCAG success criteria. There
> are two cases that seem important to distinguish.
>
> Case 1: use of the tools by authors for preparation of content. I expect
> this to be uncontroversial, as the authors can review the output of the
> speech recognition or image recognition software and correct it before
> publishing WCAG-conformant content to the Web.
>
> Case 2: use of the tools to add captions or descriptions to content
> without any possibility of authorial intervention to correct mistakes.
> Examples of this usage would include automatic captioning of live audio
> tracks in synchronized media, or automatic construction of text
> alternatives for large collections of images.
>
> Given recent advances in deep neural networks, we may eventually reach the
> point at which case 2 (at least under confined circumstances) can
> constitute a sufficient technique for meeting the relevant success criteria.
>
>
>
> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 16, 2017 5:12 PM
> *To:* Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
> *Cc:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Question about 1.2.4 Captions (Live) (AA) and 1.2.9
> Audio-only (Live) (AAA)
>
>
>
> >> My understanding here is that since it's about captions, and
> synchronized media, this does not apply to audio-only (live) content.
>
>
>
> It would be tough to get consensus from stakeholders on this... an
> interesting problem. The stakeholders this would affect most might be radio
> stations. In this case the internet is a broadcasting medium and the page
> is being used in a way different from how we would have conceived in the
> early 2000s when most of WCAG 2 was written. Certainly at the time we could
> not have gotten consensus to require stations to hire a full time
> captioning service. I expect there would be a lot of claims of undue
> burden.
>
>
>
> I think we'll be facing some sever opposition if we make such a huge
> increase in requirements in a dot version. In 5 years or so automatic
> captioning might make this a lot less of a burden. I'd punt it and add it
> to the Silver wish list.
>
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
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> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Patrick H. Lauke <redux@splintered.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> I would guess the cleanest change to address this would be to to promote
> 1.2.9 from AAA to AA (technically, if live audio as part of
> multimedia/sync'd media/video presentation needs to have captions, then so
> should audio-only - captions or some other form of alternative - as the
> effort required would be same or arguably even lower than injecting
> captions into multimedia/video).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> P
>
>
>
> On 11/07/2017 15:42, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:
>
> On 11/07/2017 15:07, Andrew Kirkpatrick wrote:
>
> Patrick,
> I don’t remember the conversation around this specifically, but I do
> recall there being a lot of concern even about live captions for
> synchronized media at AA, so this may have been a compromise.
>
> I can vaguely recall discussion (but may be misremembering) around the
> volume of audio content that online radio stations and other continuous
> broadcasters put out, so it may have been done in response to comments. I
> do see that 1.2.9 was added between CR and PR, but don’t see anything in a
> quick scan of the minutes.
>
>
> Thanks Andrew. Wondering if this is something that could/should be looked
> at for WCAG 2.1. Currently, this seems weirdly unbalanced - and as the
> volume of sync'd media, even just live videos with audio, is becoming more
> and more common (while at the time of WCAG 2 it may have been more of a
> rarity?) this will probably start to cause issues or result in weird
> loopholes. (For instance, if faced with decision of whether to just stream
> audio or do an audio+video stream, some developers/publishers may opt to
> just to audio-only since that then has no captioning/alternative
> requirement under AA - and yes, while 1.1.1 does have a tiny mention about
> live audio, "text alternatives at least provide descriptive identification
> of the non-text content" means that all that would be required to pass here
> too is a simple "there's some live audio here..." type short description).
>
> P
>
>
>
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
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