- From: Kathy Wahlbin <kathy@interactiveaccessibility.com>
- Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 18:58:31 +0000
- To: David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com>
- CC: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>, "White, Jason J" <jjwhite@ets.org>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <AA2ADA4972B28E44BEA975C2E84D4059468A0465@ORD2MBX02G.mex05.mlsrvr.com>
With responsive design, these can be seen on the desktop when the screen is magnified. These are not just for mobile so I don’t think we should say that we need to test on one mobile platform since it does not matter what device that you are using. My surface PC has a smaller screen that is actually smaller than the iPAD pro. Kathy From: David MacDonald [mailto:david@can-adapt.com] Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 2:16 PM To: Kathy Wahlbin <kathy@interactiveaccessibility.com> Cc: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>; White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org>; WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> Subject: Re: Moving Issues 62, 63, 71 to the conformance section hmmm... What do you think WCAG 2.0 requires? Cheers, David MacDonald CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Mobile: 613.806.9005 LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> twitter.com/davidmacd<http://twitter.com/davidmacd> GitHub<https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> www.Can-Adapt.com<http://www.can-adapt.com/> Adapting the web to all users Including those with disabilities If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy<http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Kathy Wahlbin <kathy@interactiveaccessibility.com<mailto:kathy@interactiveaccessibility.com>> wrote: I agree with John. We should not say that they have to have it working on one mobile technology. This is also not an SC. We are proposing adding clarification language to the Understanding Requirement 2" just before the Notes at the end of the section. https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conformance.html#uc-conformance-requirements-head to clarify that different viewport sizes also need to conform to WCAG SC. Kathy From: John Foliot [mailto:john.foliot@deque.com<mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>] Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:47 PM To: David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com<mailto:david@can-adapt.com>> Cc: White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>>; WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>> Subject: Re: Moving Issues 62, 63, 71 to the conformance section Hi David, > If they can demonstrate the site working on one mobile technology stack that should be sufficient. I'm sorry, I have to strongly disagree with that. The W3C has a long-standing policy of two independent implementations, and I would expect we maintain that minimum requirement going forward. I cannot support a SC that is targeted towards addressing an issue (or issues) with a specific piece of hardware or software (or platform), and if we cannot demonstrate that the requirement can be achieved on more than one platform, then we cannot make it a SC Requirement today (hard as that may be to accept). As somebody once noted<http://www.davidmacd.com/blog/what-are-WCAG-success-criteria.html#p7>: Success Criteria are technology neutral JF On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 11:57 AM, David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com<mailto:david@can-adapt.com>> wrote: > Try as I might, I've not gotten VoiceOver to work on my Samsung Galaxy yet, and I don't think I ever will... Yes it is shorthand, however, I don't think we can require developers to support every environment. Especially buggy environments ... (such as Talkback/Android) If they can demonstrate the site working on one mobile technology stack that should be sufficient. Cheers, David MacDonald CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Mobile: 613.806.9005<tel:(613)%20806-9005> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> twitter.com/davidmacd<http://twitter.com/davidmacd> GitHub<https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> www.Can-Adapt.com<http://www.can-adapt.com/> Adapting the web to all users Including those with disabilities If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy<http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 12:37 PM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com<mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>> wrote: As an aside... > The original intention of the SC is to require VoiceOver compatibility for mobile views Try as I might, I've not gotten VoiceOver to work on my Samsung Galaxy yet, and I don't think I ever will... (I realize that this was more "shorthand" than anything else, but we also need to be mindful that we are looking for functional outcomes, and not SC that address software shortcomings with specific tools - which I know David knows. 😀) JF On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 8:04 PM, David MacDonald <david@can-adapt.com<mailto:david@can-adapt.com>> wrote: Hi Jason The original intention of the SC is to require VoiceOver compatibility for mobile views, especially inaccessible hamburger menus. Personally, I'd like to simply see a qualification to WCAG 2.0 or 2.1 Conformance that a page includes changes caused by breakpoints. Your wording requires ALL AT to be tested and we found that to be a limitless scope of every AT available in the Apple store. We could narrow the scope by limiting the AT the way we did in the SC proposals to "platform assistive technology that remaps touch gestures". This is really the crux of the problem as we saw it on the task force. *** If (1) the content includes features that adapt the presentation or functionality for specific hardware or software environments (e.g., as rendered on devices with different screen sizes), and (2) a different platform assistive technology that remaps touch gestures is used on those environments then the ways in which technologies are relied upon to satisfy the success criteria are only accessibility-supported if they are compatible with user agents and assistive technologies in each of the environments for which enhancements are provided. *** I know its a mouthful but if its accurate we can do a plain language pass later. Cheers, David MacDonald CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Mobile: 613.806.9005<tel:(613)%20806-9005> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> twitter.com/davidmacd<http://twitter.com/davidmacd> GitHub<https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> www.Can-Adapt.com<http://www.can-adapt.com/> Adapting the web to all users Including those with disabilities If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy<http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 4:46 PM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>> wrote: This is interesting. I don’t think screen size is the right concept to use for purposes of of the clarification that we need. Also, this proposal doesn’t actually clarify the application of the “accessibility-supported” requirement by asserting the relevant set of user agents and assistive technologies that need to be compatible with the ways of using technologies relied on to meet the success criteria. I appreciate its simplicity, however. From: David MacDonald [mailto:david@can-adapt.com<mailto:david@can-adapt.com>] Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2017 4:39 PM To: White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>> Cc: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>> Subject: Re: Moving Issues 62, 63, 71 to the conformance section Here's another option which might be easier: *** "If components change form based on screen size, they remain programmatically determinable and keyboard operable." *** It would be placed after the last paragraph in the section "Understanding Requirement 2" just before the Notes at the end of the section. https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conformance.html#uc-conformance-requirements-head<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2FUNDERSTANDING-WCAG20%2Fconformance.html%23uc-conformance-requirements-head&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=OzSa6RsINaMaOkGRz5hP6NJHqSU8BoO86HE7OGWPrVw%3D&reserved=0> Cheers, David MacDonald CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Mobile: 613.806.9005<tel:(613)%20806-9005> LinkedIn <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdavidmacdonald100&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=EB3oYNzfR2hkc1qw6IbuaCsDcEc8ZU06qljcnuXQQAo%3D&reserved=0> twitter.com/davidmacd<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdavidmacd&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=QtuGL8qoBb92JkUa87O%2Bt6l0JmOqZxrzu5lI4GuGy5M%3D&reserved=0> GitHub<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2FDavidMacDonald&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=vyZLBGm1BRgreiXBLdYxV4z%2Bnz32zcW9yZ8te9QQCsI%3D&reserved=0> www.Can-Adapt.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.can-adapt.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=uSTGQHJwALkXIBDE0NfG%2BrfFzN9pAH4kXR5YNYXnwH0%3D&reserved=0> Adapting the web to all users Including those with disabilities If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidmacd.com%2Fdisclaimer.html&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40ets.org%7Cc5e18b0d103d4893abe408d4ca2f3ddf%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636355751636405902&sdata=arDC0ucVLw4b1n%2BnUUjj4ZfdTTpk3XOuENhWpddbRPA%3D&reserved=0> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 12:50 PM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org<mailto:jjwhite@ets.org>> wrote: Thanks, David – see further comments below. From: David MacDonald [mailto:david@can-adapt.com<mailto:david@can-adapt.com>] I like your second condition, adding an "AND" for different AT in those environments. Regarding the first condition, Gregg expressed concern regarding using broad strokes for the customized view. He suggested we limit it to "size". He was nervous that there might be customized delivery of content such information spoken in a car etc, that by its very nature could not meet the conformance language and inhibit adoption of the standard. [Jason] I would like to see good examples of this that would meet both of my conditions and which would raise difficulties. So if I was to take your proposal and adjust it to size, it would look something like this. If (1) the content includes features that adapt its presentation or functionality based on screen sizes in specific hardware or software environments, and (2) different user agents or assistive technologies are in use in each of these respective environments, then the ways in which technologies are relied upon to satisfy the success criteria are only accessibility-supported if they are compatible with user agents and assistive technologies in each of the environments for which adaptations are provided. However, arguing against myself, your proposal does limit the scope to environments with different AT. If there is no AT for that environment, then maybe your language is OK. [Jason] Yes, I’m in favor of mentioning screen size, if at all, only as an example. Both of the conditions do need to be met for the proposal to apply, and it only clarifies (at most, expands) the nature of the compatibility guarantee. ________________________________ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for your compliance. ________________________________ ________________________________ This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged or confidential information. It is solely for use by the individual for whom it is intended, even if addressed incorrectly. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do not disclose, copy, distribute, or take any action in reliance on the contents of this information; and delete it from your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited. Thank you for your compliance. ________________________________ -- John Foliot Principal Accessibility Strategist Deque Systems Inc. john.foliot@deque.com<mailto:john.foliot@deque.com> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion -- John Foliot Principal Accessibility Strategist Deque Systems Inc. john.foliot@deque.com<mailto:john.foliot@deque.com> Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
Received on Friday, 14 July 2017 18:59:03 UTC