Re: Re[2]: Should we require labels to be always visible?

+1 to Jonathan's interpretation/recommendation.

Glenda (Goodwitch) Sims

glenda sims    |   team a11y lead   |    deque.com    |    512.963.3773


*web for everyone. web on everything.* -  w3 goals

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
wrote:

> Ø  https://www.google.com – it has title=“search” and
> aria-label=“search”, does it need a visible label?
>
>
>
> We’ve had this discussion many times on the list.  I believe the current
> SC 3.3.2 requires visible labels for all input based on the normative
> definition and note of label in WCAG 2.0.
>
>
>
> A visible label doesn’t have to be text and could be an icon, button or
> graphic such as  a “search” button that is in close proximity to the input
> field.  A placeholder would serve as the visual label when the field does
> not have text in it.  As soon as the field has text in it then another
> visual label would be needed.  I support the float label technique
> described here:
>
> http://bradfrost.com/blog/post/float-label-pattern/
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> Jonathan Avila
>
> Chief Accessibility Officer
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>
> *From:* Andrew Kirkpatrick [mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, January 06, 2017 11:51 AM
> *To:* Shawn Lauriat; David MacDonald
> *Cc:* josh@interaccess.ie; lisa.seeman; Detlev Fischer; WCAG
>
> *Subject:* Re: Re[2]: Should we require labels to be always visible?
>
>
>
> One of the other classic cases:
>
>
>
> https://www.google.com – it has title=“search” and aria-label=“search”,
> does it need a visible label?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> AWK
>
>
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
>
> Group Product Manager, Standards and Accessibility
>
> Adobe
>
>
>
> akirkpat@adobe.com
>
> http://twitter.com/awkawk
>
>
>
> *From: *Shawn Lauriat <lauriat@google.com>
> *Date: *Friday, January 6, 2017 at 11:45
> *To: *David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
> *Cc: *"josh@interaccess.ie" <josh@interaccess.ie>, "lisa.seeman@zoho.com"
> <lisa.seeman@zoho.com>, Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>,
> WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: Re[2]: Should we require labels to be always visible?
> *Resent-From: *WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> *Resent-Date: *Friday, January 6, 2017 at 11:46
>
>
>
> As my two cents, I would say always required, and beyond helping around
> cognitive and low-vision, to situational impairments:
>
>    - If the browser helpfully fills in all fields, with duplicate entries
>    in four of them, you have no way of knowing what data really belongs in
>    which field.
>    - If you start to fill out a form and then the phone rings, diverting
>    your attention for an extended period, you won't remember the fields. Even
>    if you just have focus in the field, the placeholder falls off.
>
> Beyond that, using placeholder as a label goes against HTML spec
> <https://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-html5-20110525/common-input-element-attributes.html#the-placeholder-attribute>.
> I know everyone does it these days, so I always say that the label should
> move from inside/over the input to above or next to it, so it remains
> visible.
>
>
>
> Limited space comes down to a design challenge, not a reason to forgo a
> visible label.
>
>
>
> -Shawn
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 11:26 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> I would say it's already a best practice...
>
>
>
> Lisa, are those with cognitive disabilities likely to loose track of what
> the field label is, if it disappears after they click on it? Is that a
> common complaint out in the wild about placeholder text for labels?
>
>
> Cheers,
> David MacDonald
>
>
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> On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 11:15 AM, josh@interaccess.ie <josh@interaccess.ie>
> wrote:
>
> <chair hat off>
>
>  >Would it help the cognitive community if the label is always visible.
>
> I like the demo David :-)
>
> I couldn't see my clients wearing having to do that. On mobile, there are
> times when screen real estate is so sparse that at best you get an icon and
> placeholder text.
>
> I just  don't think that would fly as a MUST, as best practice maybe. As
> long as it fits into the look and feel guidelines etc.
>
> My 2 cents
>
> Josh
>
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Detlev Fischer" <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>
> To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org; david100@sympatico.ca
> Sent: 06/01/2017 16:03:31
> Subject: Re: Should we require labels to be always visible?
>
> That's one way of doing it, but there will be others. So the requirement
> might be EITHER have external visible label OR if using placeholder, show
> label next to field after focussing field.
> Note that some implementations keep the placeholder text visible even
> after focussing (mostly grey text) until you start typing, which I
> personally find confusing. Not sure whether some SC (COGA?) or technique
> addresses this yet.
>
> David MacDonald schrieb am 06.01.2017 16:51:
>
>
>  Most of the sites I evaluate these days seem to have placeholder text for
> labels. An aria-label helps, but the label still disappears on focus or on
> clicking into the field.
>
>
>  Would it help the cognitive community if the label is always visible. So
> for placeholder labels, should we require that the label appears near the
> field when the user clicks or tabs to the field? Like this?
>
>
>  http://davidmacd.com/widgets/floating-label/floating-placeholder1.html <
> http://davidmacd.com/widgets/floating-label/floating-placeholder1.html>
>
>
>  Cheers,
>  David MacDonald
>
>
>
>  CanAdapt Solutions Inc.
>
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>
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