- From: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
- Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2016 14:51:54 -0500
- To: "Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken" <tsiegman@wiley.com>
- Cc: Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL <ryladog@gmail.com>, Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>, George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com>, Wilco Fiers <wilco.fiers@deque.com>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, Charles LaPierre <Charlesl@benetech.org>, Avneesh Singh <avneesh.sg@gmail.com>
- Message-ID: <CAAdDpDaAxMc5Pq5w2A4qT8DZ-WGch81a40_3zg9HT3-if_9hZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Tzviya The WIKI seems to be documenting the Schema.org accessibility properties, which is helpful but I'm not sure what I could recommend for that page given that it just documents what's in the standard, through an accessibility lens. Maybe I'm missing something. My proposal is to introduce a simply way to report conformance through meta data, and the properties I proposed where because I didn't see anything on Screma.org that did that. Cheers, David MacDonald *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* Tel: 613.235.4902 LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> twitter.com/davidmacd GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> * Adapting the web to all users* * Including those with disabilities* If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken < tsiegman@wiley.com> wrote: > Hi David, > > > > Thanks for the input. > > > > Proposing new Properties and their values to schema.org is not quite the > same as making editorial changes to the wiki. It took months of work for > the existing properties to be approved by the schema.org CG. These > proposals look great, but they would need to be proposed to the committee. > > > > The changes that we can make at this point are to the language in > https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Accessibility. There is no explicit > mention of WCAG anywhere on this site. Would you recommend mentioning WCAG > on this site? Can you provide specific language? > > > > Thanks, > > Tzviya > > > > *Tzviya Siegman* > > Information Standards Lead > > Wiley > > 201-748-6884 > > tsiegman@wiley.com > > > > *From:* Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL [mailto:ryladog@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2016 12:12 PM > *To:* 'David MacDonald'; 'Matt Garrish'; 'George Kerscher'; Siegman, > Tzviya - Hoboken; 'Wilco Fiers' > *Cc:* 'WCAG'; 'Charles LaPierre'; 'Avneesh Singh' > *Subject:* RE: Meta Data > > > > Changing Wilco’s email to his Deque one (wilco.fiers@deque.com ) > > > > > > > > > > > > ** katie ** > > > > *Katie Haritos-Shea* > *Principal ICT Accessibility Architect (WCAG/Section 508/ADA/AODA)* > > > > *Cell: 703-371-5545 <703-371-5545> **|* *ryladog@gmail.com* > <ryladog@gmail.com> *|* *Oakton, VA **|* *LinkedIn Profile* > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/katieharitosshea/> *|* *Office: 703-371-5545 > <703-371-5545> **|* *@ryladog* <https://twitter.com/Ryladog> > > > > *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca > <david100@sympatico.ca>] > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 29, 2016 12:09 PM > *To:* Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>; Wilco Fiers < > w.fiers@accessibility.nl>; George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com>; > Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com> > *Cc:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL < > ryladog@gmail.com>; Charles LaPierre <Charlesl@benetech.org>; Avneesh > Singh <avneesh.sg@gmail.com> > *Subject:* Meta Data > > > > On the call today it was decided to move forward with a new AAA for > MetaData from DPUB perhaps something simple like > > > > SC XXXX Metatdata: Metadata is provided which describes the accessibility > characteristics of the content > > > > The understanding could reference Schema.org > > > > It was also requested by dPUB for us to propose any new Meta Data terms > for Scema.org we'd like to see. I suggest the following: > > > > (1) The WCAG level of conformance claimed > > (2) The technology relied upon for conformance > > > > For the first property I could see something like this: > > > > accessibilityConformance: > > > > with the following values for each of the WCAG 2 and 2.1 Levels and more > could be added if further standards show up. > > > > levelWCAG2-A > > levelWCAG2-AA > > levelWCAG2-AAA > > levelWCAG2v1-A > > levelWCAG2v1-AA > > levelWCAG2v1-AAA > > > > > > I'm not sure how to do the 2nd. Technology relied upon, because i'd hate > to limit the values. Maybe just start with the conformance level. > > > Cheers, > David MacDonald > > > > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > > Tel: 613.235.4902 > > LinkedIn > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > twitter.com/davidmacd > > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> > > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > > * Including those with disabilities* > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Michael Pluke < > Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com> wrote: > > Hi David > > > > I recall that a “set of software programs” was something that few of us > have experienced although one member of the Task Force assured us that he > had spotted one “in the wild”. I couldn’t recall whether we agreed that a > set of documents was similarly rare (although I think that, with the very > tight conditions, it probably is). > > > > I do recall that one of the arguments for not including these success > criteria for documents was the concern that a large amount of time could be > spent by people evaluating to the standard to search through what could be > large ICT systems trying to identify if there were any sets of software – > only to get a negative answer in almost all cases. I also recall that a > problem could be that something that did meet the set of documents at one > point might no longer be a set of documents if updates to part of the set > were made. > > > > Overall, the conclusion were that: > > > > - including the interpretation of these success criteria in the > form that they were written was unlikely to lead to an improvement in > accessibility for the vast majority of ICT procurements (in the same way > that they are for Web pages); > > - much time could be wasted in all ICT procurements trying to > identify if any of these rare sets of documents existed. > > > > This resulted in the decision not to include them (in their current form). > I’m not sure that the case is strong enough to merit revisiting that > conclusion. > > > > Best regards > > > > Mike > > > > *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca] > *Sent:* 23 November 2016 16:55 > *To:* Michael Pluke <Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com> > *Cc:* Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>; WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; > Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL <ryladog@gmail.com>; Wilco Fiers < > w.fiers@accessibility.nl>; Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com>; > George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com>; Charles LaPierre < > Charlesl@benetech.org>; Avneesh Singh <avneesh.sg@gmail.com> > > > *Subject:* Re: DPUB Set of Web Pages > > > > Hi Mike > > > > It might be worth it to loop the member of your team who felt it necessary > for the EU to diverge from the WCAG2ICT on those specific issues... we did > agree on the WCG2ICT that a "set of documents" would not be common in the > document world, but it did work when applied to documents, which > facilitated consensus on the WCAG2ICT for the entire adoption of WCAG to > Software and documents. > > > > I often find in standards, as you may have experienced, that sometimes > just sitting down and talking together helps us unify and make stronger > global standards that are not splintered. I'd be keen to sit down with your > technician and see if we can come together. > > > Cheers, > David MacDonald > > > > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > > Tel: 613.235.4902 > > LinkedIn > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > twitter.com/davidmacd > > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> > > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > > * Including those with disabilities* > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Michael Pluke < > Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com> wrote: > > I agree. > > > > I certainly wouldn’t recommend a solution that ignores those requirements. > As I said, I wish you luck in getting a good solution to enable you to > include them. If you succeed I, for one, would push to have this solution > incorporated in any future update of EN 301 549! > > > > Best regards > > > > Mike > > > > *From:* Matt Garrish [mailto:matt.garrish@gmail.com] > *Sent:* 23 November 2016 16:06 > *To:* 'David MacDonald' <david100@sympatico.ca> > *Cc:* 'WCAG' <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; 'Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL' < > ryladog@gmail.com>; 'Wilco Fiers' <w.fiers@accessibility.nl>; 'Siegman, > Tzviya - Hoboken' <tsiegman@wiley.com>; 'George Kerscher' < > kerscher@montana.com>; 'Charles LaPierre' <Charlesl@benetech.org>; > 'Avneesh Singh' <avneesh.sg@gmail.com> > *Subject:* RE: DPUB Set of Web Pages > > > > Yes, this is interesting, but I'm not sure how to respond. As we work to a > web publication definition, there are challenges we'll need to address, but > I can't see how we could develop a specification that ignores wcag > requirements. You absolutely have to have multiple ways to access the pages > of a publication, for example. In EPUB, the reading system facilitates > seamless navigation from document to document through the spine (metadata > about the order). There is also a required table of contents, and > publications often have other forms of navigation, like indexes, access to > static page break locations, search functionality through the reading > system, etc. I'm fully expecting that we won't compromise anywhere, but > details of the pitfalls you encountered would be helpful. > > > > Matt > > > > *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca > <david100@sympatico.ca>] > *Sent:* November 23, 2016 10:52 AM > *To:* Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com> > *Cc:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL < > ryladog@gmail.com>; Wilco Fiers <w.fiers@accessibility.nl>; Siegman, > Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com>; George Kerscher < > kerscher@montana.com>; Charles LaPierre <Charlesl@benetech.org>; Avneesh > Singh <avneesh.sg@gmail.com> > *Subject:* Re: DPUB Set of Web Pages > > > > Hi Mike > > > > >was developed the consensus opinion was that applying 2.4.1, 2.4.5, > 3.2.3 and 3.2.4 to documents using the “set of documents” definition did > not capture the key accessibility needs. > > > > Can you explain this further? I was an active member of the WCAG2ICT TF > with you on all of those calls for a year. > > > Cheers, > David MacDonald > > > > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > > Tel: 613.235.4902 > > LinkedIn > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > twitter.com/davidmacd > > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> > > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > > * Including those with disabilities* > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 10:32 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> > wrote: > > Hi Matt > > > > I think including a epub example in a set of web pages wouldn't preclude a > more specific definition of epub at a later time, or even in a later > version of WCAG ... on the other hand, maybe we could introduce a new term > in 2.1 if we have it very soon. > > > > It just seems to me that "a set of web pages" and inherent in that the > "web page definition" of the base URL and associated assets, is a perfect > short term definition that would accomplish what George mentioned about > working epub into the web page framework so that the WCAG Success Criteria > can explicitly apply to epub. > > > > Although just the fact that they sit at a URL already allows WCAG Success > Criteria to apply to epub, and WCAG2ICT applies when its offline. > > > Cheers, > David MacDonald > > > > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > > Tel: 613.235.4902 > > LinkedIn > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > twitter.com/davidmacd > > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> > > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > > * Including those with disabilities* > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > > > On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Thanks, David, this is a good start. I'd just suggest that we keep any > definition of a web publication agnostic to specific formats. > > > > As Tzviya mentioned on the call, the DPUB group will be taking up the > issues from yesterday on their next call, so we'll have more to say about > example wording and metadata after we can involve the full group. > > > > Matt > > > > *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca] > *Sent:* November 22, 2016 3:26 PM > *To:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>; Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL < > ryladog@gmail.com>; Wilco Fiers <w.fiers@accessibility.nl>; Siegman, > Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com>; George Kerscher < > kerscher@montana.com>; markus.gylling@idpf.org; matt.garrish@bell.net; > Charles LaPierre <Charlesl@benetech.org>; Avneesh Saxena < > Avneesh.s@gmail.com> > *Subject:* DPUB Set of Web Pages > > > > Note: DPUB members, this is my personal opinion, not speaking for WG > > > > Today we discussed ways that we could role a DPUB package into our > definition of web page. > > > > DPUB packages have more than one URL, and as such cannot be considered > under our current definition as a web page. However, we have a useful > definition in WCAG which lends itself ideally to a DPUB document. That is a > "Set of Web Pages" > > > > *set of Web pages* > > collection of Web pages <https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#webpagedef> that > share a common purpose and that are created by the same author, group or > organization > > *Note: *Different language versions would be considered different sets of > Web pages. > > https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#set-of-web-pagesdef > > > > We could add something like this to the definition > > > > "Example: An epub publication has a table of contents and 25 separate URLs > representing each chapter of a digital book." > > > > If the DPUB team has Success Criteria they would like to propose for WCAG, > for DEC 1st, I suggest they submit them using this definition. For > instance, if they want ways to link from a TOC to another chapter of the > document and back, they could propose something like: > > > > "Every link from a Table of Contents in a set of web pages has a > corresponding link back to the Table of Contents" > > > > Of course this SC is just off the top of my head but it gives an idea of > how this type of SC could be written with this language. > > > > ============= > > Also we discussed meta data as a means of reporting conformance. WCAG 2 > has a discussion of meta data in Appendix C which may be useful. > > https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/appendixC.html > > > > > Cheers, > David MacDonald > > > > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > > Tel: 613.235.4902 > > LinkedIn > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > twitter.com/davidmacd > > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> > > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > > * Including those with disabilities* > > > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > > > > > > > >
Received on Wednesday, 30 November 2016 19:52:34 UTC