- From: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
- Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 14:00:19 -0500
- To: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
- Cc: Joshue O Connor <josh@interaccess.ie>, Wayne Dick <wayneedick@gmail.com>, WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAKdCpxxNFAGrvCC0srxixFbsUJSHbZLm4R0Q=OuJi85z=mveaQ@mail.gmail.com>
Hi David, I'd prefer we look at the requirement as an abstract functional requirement, and not as a potential solution in search of a Success Criteria. You *could* use aria-labelledby as *one* possible solution, but I don't want to exclude other possibilities, including some that may not yet be "invented". I also think that Wayne's point is that we should be thinking beyond "Accessible Names" and Screen Readers alone, a point I know you know, but sometimes gets lost when we start chiselling things into smaller pieces. This thread started off by posing the question: "consider replacing " programmatically determined link context" with "Accessible name" in 2.4.4", and at this time I'm leaning towards "no, let's not *replace* 'programmatically determined link context', but perhaps we could look to incorporate AccessibleName into the 2.1 Spec somehow. I'd also respectfully suggest we not wander too far from that topic (which talking about aria-labelledby sort of feels like here). Cheers! JF On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 1:08 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> wrote: > Jason has an important concern, that we would have to provide a way for > authors to provide context when it is useful rather than a verbose > accessible name... > > I also wonder about the familiar pattern on many home pages: > > Linked heading to an article > Teaser sentence or paragraph summarizing or starting the article > "read more" link to same page as the heading > > In the links list you get something like this: > > Sun is shining over WCAG > Read More > Mobile Task Force getting along wonderfully > Read more > Cognitive task force make great progress > read more > > I currently don't know how much of a problem that is... would it be better > like this using labelledby? > > Sun is shining over WCAG > Read More Sun is shining over WCAG > Mobile Task Force have joyful call together > Read more Mobile Task Force getting along wonderfully > Cognitive task force make great progress > read more Cognitive task force make great progress > > Cheers, > David MacDonald > > > > *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* > Tel: 613.235.4902 > > LinkedIn > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> > > twitter.com/davidmacd > > GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> > > www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/> > > > > * Adapting the web to all users* > * Including those with disabilities* > > If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy > <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 12:30 PM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com> > wrote: > >> Sure, but I also agree with Wayne. >> >> >> >> I loves me the ARIA, but it is mostly targeted to screen reader users, >> and we need to remember other user-groups as well. I would be in favor of * >> *adding** Accessible Name, but we must recognize that it is but a >> reference to the ARIA API mappings. I wonder aloud how many mainstream >> developers even know that term today… >> >> >> >> I think I would be opposed to simply swapping out one term/phrase for the >> other. >> >> >> >> JF >> >> >> >> *From:* josh@interaccess.ie [mailto:josh@interaccess.ie] >> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 19, 2016 11:27 AM >> *To:* Wayne Dick <wayneedick@gmail.com>; David MacDonald < >> david100@sympatico.ca> >> *Cc:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> >> *Subject:* Re[2]: (WCAG 2.1) Do we want to replace "programmatically >> determined link context" in 2.4.4 with "Accessible Name"? >> >> >> >> I also think the terms are too similar - but I know where David is coming >> from with this. >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> Josh >> >> >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >> >> From: "Wayne Dick" <wayneedick@gmail.com> >> >> To: "David MacDonald" <david100@sympatico.ca> >> >> Cc: "WCAG" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> >> >> Sent: 19/07/2016 17:07:07 >> >> Subject: Re: (WCAG 2.1) Do we want to replace "programmatically >> determined link context" in 2.4.4 with "Accessible Name"? >> >> >> >> I hope you don't mean the accessible name as in the accessible name >> computation in ARIA 1.0 and 1.1. That is out of the frying pan into the >> fire. >> >> Wayne >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 6:13 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> >> wrote: >> >> ***This is proposed for version 2.1. NOT for 2.0 *** >> >> >> >> Do we want to consider replacing >> >> " >> >> programmatically determined link context" with "Accessible name" in >> 2.4.4. >> >> >> >> This will simplify the requirement, eliminate that awkward definition >> that few developers understood, and ensure that when screen reader users >> pull up a list of links on on conforming page, they will not get "learn >> more" etc... because screen readers provide the accessible name in the >> links list, not just the link text. So an aria-label or aria-labelledby >> will render a meaningful text in the list. AccessibleName wasn't well >> understood or supported back in 2006-2008. >> >> >> >> ===Current=== >> >> 2.4.4 Link Purpose (In Context): The purpose of each link can be >> determined from the link text alone or from the link text together with its >> >> >> >> programmatically determined link context, except where the purpose of the >> link would be ambiguous to users in general. (Level A) >> >> >> >> === Proposal change=== >> >> >> 2.4.4 Link Purpose (In Context): The purpose of each link can be >> determined from the link text alone or Accessible Name, except where the >> purpose of the link would be ambiguous to users in general. (Level A) >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> David MacDonald >> >> >> >> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.* >> >> Tel: 613.235.4902 >> >> LinkedIn >> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> >> >> twitter.com/davidmacd >> >> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald> >> >> http://www.can-adapt.com/ >> >> >> >> * Adapting the web to all users* >> >> * Including those with disabilities* >> >> >> >> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy >> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html> >> >> >> >> > -- John Foliot Principal Accessibility Strategist Deque Systems Inc. john.foliot@deque.com Advancing the mission of digital accessibility and inclusion
Received on Tuesday, 19 July 2016 19:00:53 UTC