Re: Should G83: "Providing text descriptions to identify required fields that were not completed" reference 3.3.2?

Jonathan,
In example 3 of G83 it is clearly stated that the fact the field is
mandatory is indicated even before form submission ... not just on
generating error.
So besides doing away with reference to 3.3.2 in G83 I suggest
changing the reference to 1.3.1 from 3.3.2 in H90.
The label, "First name" still remains the label that conveys the
purpose of the field that satisfies 3.3.2.
Associating an asterisk or "- mandatory" or "-optional" or error text
as part of the LABEL element is a method of meeting 1.3.1. It is like
any other advisory / instructional text and by itself does not convey
the purpose of the field.
Even without it, the field still has a label and it is sufficient for
3.3.2. Only if a visual required cue or instruction is present, then
making it PD is a 1.3.1 requirement at best not an SC 3.3.2 need.
This will make H90 and G83 that were written long time ago in sync
with ARIA2 that is most recent.
Thanks,
Sailesh


On 2/10/16, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
> Ø  Sometimes the application does not know if a field is required until it
> is submitted. If this behaviour is the same for all users - and the error
> messaging is happening in an accessible manner why would this be an
> accessibility issue?
> I didn’t say it was an accessibility issue – but that we needed a
> resolution, i.e. an official response from the WCAG WG on this subject
> because it has come up enough to warrant discussion.  I agree with your
> example and I’ve also seen examples where all fields are required except
> when optional.  On the flip side people might argue that not indicating
> required fields was a bigger obstacle to people with cognitive disabilities
> and making changes to a form after submitting could be more problematic and
> knowing which fields required content in advance would reduce the burden on
> users with cognitive disabilities by not making them fill out fields they
> didn’t have to fill out.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
> 703.637.8957 (o)
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> From: James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 12:33 PM
> To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Should G83: "Providing text descriptions to identify required
> fields that were not completed" reference 3.3.2?
>
> Sometimes the application does not know if a field is required until it is
> submitted. If this behaviour is the same for all users - and the error
> messaging is happening in an accessible manner why would this be an
> accessibility issue?
>
> regards,
> James
> On 2/10/2016 9:03 AM, Jonathan Avila wrote:
>
> Sailesh, I agree we need a resolution on this.  Right now this association
> indicates that you can comply with the required field indication visually
> and programmatically only appearing after submitting a form.  That is a page
> with required fields does not need to indicate them to conform to WCAG
> except on error then the required field state would need to be indicated
> visually/programmatically.
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> Jonathan Avila
>
> Chief Accessibility Officer
>
> SSB BART Group
>
> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>
> 703.637.8957 (o)
>
> Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Sailesh Panchang [mailto:sailesh.panchang@deque.com]
>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 11:45 AM
>
> To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org<mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>
> Subject: Should G83: "Providing text descriptions to identify required
> fields that were not completed" reference 3.3.2?
>
>
>
> SC 3.3.2 is listed as the third applicable SC for this technique.
>
> In example #3 the error text displayed after form submission is associated
> using the LABEL element. So this really  is a method of meeting 1.3.1 ...
> not 3.3.2.
>
> The label, "First name" still remains the label that conveys the purpose of
> the field that satisfies 3.3.2.
>
> Associating an asterisk or "- mandatory" or "-optional" or error text as
> part of the LABEL element is a method of meeting 1.3.1. Refer ARIA2 for
> instance.
>
> So my recommendation is that  "SC 3.3.2" should be deleted from list of
> applicable SCs of G83. It is alright to retain the example though because it
> clarifies how 3.3.1 and 3.3.3 are met.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sailesh Panchang
>
>
>
> --
> Regards, James
>
> [Oracle]<http://www.oracle.com>
> James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility
> Phone: +1 650 506 6781<tel:+1%20650%20506%206781> | Mobile: +1 415 987
> 1918<tel:+1%20415%20987%201918> | Video:
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> Oracle Corporate Architecture
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> environment
>

Received on Wednesday, 10 February 2016 17:56:38 UTC