Re: regions of a page failure technique

Hi Adam

>How were these regions determined for wcag success before live regions?

I'm not sure what is meant by "live regions". That is an ARIA attribute for
changing content. If it means static regions, then I would say there was
always a positive obligation to identify them, but not a great way to do
so. For instance, many of us were recommending a heading above a navigation
region to identify it, and of course a heading above the main content. We
tried to manage that with the best practice of "one h1 on a page", but that
was not ideal in all circumstances. With all the other headings in the
content it was not an elegant solution to use headings to identify all
regions with headings. There was always the ability to identify these
regions, but it was not particularly attractive as a solution except for
navigation sections, and for the main content.

So the failure was always there but not well enforced for good reason. Now
there is no good reason not to document the positive requirement to make
information and relationships in this regard programmatically determinable
(or available in text.)

> If there is no specific function for these regions which a user needs to
know about then it does not require P.D.

If there is no distinction between the content and it's surrounding content
there will be no failure. The failure only applies to content that visual
AND substantively different, and not just one or 2 items.

I'm reminded of why the working group exists. To make the web more
accessible for people with disabilities. Let us not loose site of our
mission. I think region identification and navigation is a huge win for
blind people and a small cost for businesses given the exceptions provided
in the failure.

Cheers,
David MacDonald



*Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
Tel:  613.235.4902

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On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 2:49 AM, Adam Solomon <adam.solomon2@gmail.com>
wrote:

> How were these regions determined for wcag success before live regions? I
> would like to hear some actual examples? Are we saying that skip links are
> what gave P.D. (programmatic determination) to headers before html5/aria?
>
> The point Wayne is making that regions necessarily must have P.D. should
> be questioned. If there is no specific function for these regions which a
> user needs to know about then it does not require P.D. Headers are headers
> for style purposes primarily, not because of function. The functionality
> could very well be anywhere on the page if not for styling considerations.
> Location on the page is not equated to functionality.
>
> On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 2:13 AM, White, Jason J <jjwhite@ets.org> wrote:
>
>> +1 likewise.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Wayne Dick [mailto:wayneedick@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 18, 2016 5:02 PM
>> *To:* David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
>> *Cc:* WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: regions of a page failure technique
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> +1
>> Note a <div> with class = nav, heading or footer is a tip off in HTML 4.
>> Use Case:
>> There are pages that do have obvious heading, navigation and footer
>> information (not all pages but many), the WAI page for example.  WCAG
>> allows you to bypass these blocks with skip links, but usually skip links
>> say go to main content. On the second or third visit to a page you may want
>> to go to a specific navigation area, or to the footer for related links or
>> the "contact us" link.  HTML 5 recognized the existence of these groupings
>> and formalized it into elements, but the semantics were always there. We
>> can certainly list these groupings in our techniques. Failure to enable
>> screen readers users a way to get to these region
>> fails to call out relationships that are expressed by presentation only.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 5:54 AM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I had an action item to update the proposal for a failure identified in
>> issue 173
>>
>>
>> "Failure of 1.3.1 due to regions of a page which are visually distinct,
>>
>> ​​
>>
>> ​and which ​
>>
>> contain distinct groups of content (headers, footers, navigation bars,
>> main content, asides) not being programmatically determinable or identified
>> by text.":
>>
>>
>>
>> I've added language to ensure these concerns that were raised are exempt.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1) Content that is not distinct visually is not a failure
>>
>> 2) Content that is not distinct  in substance is not a failure
>>
>> 3) Content that only has one or two items is not a failure because it is
>> not a region (group of content)
>>
>>
>>
>> I support the technique because it is (1) a common failure of 1.3.1 (2)
>> it is straight forward to fix (3) I would like to ensure we haven't frozen
>> the ability to introduce common failures (4) it always was a failure, but
>> currently it is easy to fix and we want to encourage a culture that allows
>> blind people to easily find and identify regions
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> David MacDonald
>>
>>
>>
>> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>>
>> Tel:  613.235.4902
>>
>> LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>>
>> twitter.com/davidmacd
>>
>> GitHub <https://github.com/DavidMacDonald>
>>
>> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>>
>> *            Including those with disabilities*
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
>> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>>
>>
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