Re: About ccategory- simple data tables with one header

David,
EO-WG  turned down the  suggestion to do away with scope=row  / scope=col on TH cells in simple tables. See 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-eo-editors/2015Jan/0003.html
Thanks,
Sailesh

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 7/1/15, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> wrote:

 Subject: Re: About ccategory- simple data tables with one header
 To: "Jonathan Avila" <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
 Cc: "Hoffman, Allen" <allen.hoffman@hq.dhs.gov>, "w3c-wai-gl@w3.org" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
 Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 5:58 PM
 
 oops it should be
 "Has anybody found any design situations when recent
 versions of JAWS or 
 NVDA have any trouble when the scope is NOT on the row or
 column header."
 
 
 
 Cheers,
 
 David MacDonald
 
  
 
 CanAdapt Solutions
 Inc.
 
 Tel:  613.235.4902
 
 LinkedIn
 
 www.Can-Adapt.com 
 
    
 
   Adapting the web
 to all users
 
            
 Including those with disabilities
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 recipient, please review our  privacy
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 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at
 5:55 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
 wrote:
 Tests I've done in recent years
 didn't come up with any advantage to adding scope row or
 scope of column... Has anybody found any design situations
 when recent versions of JAWS or NVDA have any trouble when
 the scope on the row or column header.
 
 In the old days it was necessary
 because moving from the second row up to the first column
 header row would cause the screen reader to read every
 <th> to the left of the cell....
 
 
 
 Cheers,
 
 David MacDonald
 
  
 
 CanAdapt Solutions
 Inc.
 
 Tel:  613.235.4902
 
 LinkedIn
 
 www.Can-Adapt.com 
 
    
 
   Adapting the web
 to all users
 
            
 Including those with disabilities
 If you are not the
 intended recipient, please review our  privacy
 policy
 
 
 
 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at
 9:28 AM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From the 
 HTML5 Spec
 The row keyword, which maps to the row
 state
 The row state means the header cell applies to some of
 the subsequent cells in the same row(s).
  
 From 
 HTML 4.01 Tables Section
 row: The current cell provides header information for the
 rest of the row that contains it (see also the section on
 table directionality).
  
 Jonathan
  
 -- 
 Jonathan Avila 
 Chief Accessibility Officer
 SSB BART Group 
 jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
 Phone 703.637.8957
  
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 -----Original Message-----
 
 From: Hoffman, Allen [mailto:allen.hoffman@hq.dhs.gov]
 
 
 Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 9:19 AM
 
 To: Jonathan Avila; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
 
 Subject: RE: About ccategory- simple data tables with one
 header 
  
 Is the HTML specification for scope clear on the
 applicability of =row only pointing right?  Is it
 differently scoped in HTML4 vs. 5?  Can you point to it? 
 Interesting stuff for sure.
  
  
  
 Allen Hoffman
 Deputy Executive Director
 The Office of Accessible Systems & Technology
 Department of Homeland Security
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 (voice)
 allen.hoffman@hq.dhs.gov
  
 DHS Accessibility Helpdesk
 202-447-0440
 (voice)
 202-447-0582
 (fax)
 202-447-5857
 (TTY)
 accessibility@dhs.gov
  
 This communication, along with any attachments, is
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 -----Original Message-----
 From: Jonathan Avila [mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com]
 Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 9:13 AM
 To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
 Subject: RE: About ccategory- simple data tables with one
 header
 
  
 There are just some situations where no cell acts as a
 row header.  In these situations there is no header cell
 and thus no need to indicate a row header.  Also of
 important note is the fact that the scope="row"
 attribute only applies
  to subsequent cells.  Thus, if scope = row is applied to
 cells in a header column such as the 3rd column then by
 definition in the HTML specification it does not apply cells
 in the columns before it.  This can be problematic in that
 it forces developers to
  organize columns in a certain way or forces developers to
 use ids and headers.
  
 Also of confusion in the tutorial is the use of scope in
 examples with ids and headers.  There is no advice on
 whether use of scope alongside ids and headers is wrong or
 required.
 http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/multi-level/
 The tutorial also incorrectly states "By using the
 row value for scope assigns the header cells in the second
 column to data cells on the left and the right of the
 individual header cell."  When in fact it only applies
 to the right in
  LTR languages.
  
 I do agree, it would be great to give clear guidance on
 when scope of row is required and not and what to do with
 header columns that are not in the first column as well as
 issues with using scope and id/headers
 together.
  
 Jonathan
  
 --
 Jonathan Avila
 Chief Accessibility Officer
 SSB BART Group
 jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
 Phone 703.637.8957
 Follow
 us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter
  
  
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Sailesh Panchang [mailto:spanchang02@yahoo.com]
 Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 7:41 AM
 To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
 Subject: About ccategory- simple data tables with one
 header
 
  
 Here is an appeal: please reconsider the need to  single
 out "Tables with one header " as a separate
 category of simple tables in the tutorial [1]. If retained,
 revise the situations where they are suitable and the
 corresponding examples.
 A simple data table must have both row and column headers
 marked up. There are perhaps very specific instances when
 this is not the case:
 e.g. 1: A calendar grid typically has a row containing
 days of week (column headers) and no row header column.
 
 e.g. 2: The first column of a two-column data table has
 row identifiers or row headers. The table  may be devoid of
 a column header row.
  
 The smallness of a  table with data itself being
 distinctly different in each column as stated in the
 tutorial [1] does not justify absence of row headers for
 those tables.
  
 I am still looking for answers posed in my emails
 below:
 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-eo-editors/2015Jun/0041.html
 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-eo-editors/2015Jun/0033.html
 [1] 
 http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/one-header/
 Thanks,
 Sailesh Panchang
  
  
  

Received on Thursday, 2 July 2015 01:03:36 UTC