Re: Discussion of alt for CSS images

As per my action items, here are testing results for CSS background and CSS
inline images.

http://davidmacd.com/blog/css-background-images.html

Cheers,

David MacDonald



*Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*

Tel:  613.235.4902

LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>

www.Can-Adapt.com



*  Adapting the web to all users*
*            Including those with disabilities*

If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
<http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 12:19 PM, James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>
wrote:

>  not Jonathan but I think we are talking about things like
>
> #myid:before
> {
>  content:url('http://www.w3.org/2008/site/images/logo-w3c-screen-lg');
> }
>
> Regards,
> James
>
> On 3/27/2015 9:01 AM, David MacDonald wrote:
>
>  Hi Jonathan
>
>  I'm just throwing up some examples now... When you speak of "inline CSS
> images", are you speaking about a regular <img ...> tag which is positioned
> with CSS, or a CSS background image which has been positioned inline using
> CSS?
>
>   Cheers,
>
> David MacDonald
>
>
>
> *Can**Adapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel:  613.235.4902
>
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
> www.Can-Adapt.com
>
>
>
> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>  *            Including those with disabilities*
>
>  If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Jonathan Avila <
> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>  Ø  Yes that is what I was referring to. I think this is a problem
>> especially for low vision users - perhaps we have done a disservice to
>> those users in this instance.....
>>
>> I would agree.  So to be clear, we are talking about two issues that
>> impact users with low vision.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.    Use of CSS background  images that convey meaning but have
>> programmatic names via properties such as aria-label
>>
>> 2.    Use of inline CSS images that convey meaning and have programmatic
>> names via properties such as aria-label.
>>
>>
>>
>> While these two issues may sounds the same – CSS images are supposed to
>> be presentational and those background images are rightly removed in high
>> contrast mode and when color are often turned off by the browser to improve
>> reading contrast for users with low vision.  Inline images are considered
>> non-presentational and thus are still displayed in these modes.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, IMO the CSS background issue is a more egregious issue while the
>> aria-label on inline images is lesser because at least the inline image is
>> visually available.
>>
>>
>>
>> Without any requirement for the user agent to display accessibility names
>> for inline images it is problematic and raises accessibility support issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> Use of presentation images with only programmatic indicators seems to
>> meet like a failure – but WCAG doesn’t seem to address this under 1.1.1 or
>> 1.3.1.  Seems like an oversight.  For example, WCAG WG thought wisely in SC
>> 1.4.1 to require a visual indicator of color in addition to a programmatic
>> one – but this didn’t carry over to CSS background images as 1.1.1 and
>> 1.3.1 only require programmatic indicators and not visual.  I think the
>> assumption is that everyone can interpret visual information or else they
>> will be using assistive technology or a browser that has some accessibility
>> feature that compensates.  While that is generally true – background images
>> seem like a safe thing to remove as they are only for background purpose.
>> The problem is that people are using CSS background images to convey
>> meaning because use of inline images have performance challenges.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> --
>> Jonathan Avila
>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>> SSB BART Group
>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com
>>
>> Phone 703.637.8957
>> Follow us: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/#%21/ssbbartgroup> | Twitter
>> <http://twitter.com/#%21/SSBBARTGroup> | LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/355266?trk=tyah> | Blog
>> <http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog> | Newsletter <http://eepurl.com/O5DP>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Katie Haritos-Shea [mailto:ryladog@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:45 PM
>> *To:* David MacDonald
>> *Cc:* WCAG
>> *Subject:* Re: Discussion of alt for CSS images
>>
>>
>>
>> David,
>>
>> Yes that is what I was referring to. I think this is a problem especially
>> for low vision users - perhaps we have done a disservice to those users in
>> this instance.....
>>
>> * katie *
>>
>> Katie Haritos-Shea @ GMAIL
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2015 4:05 PM, "David MacDonald" <david100@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Katie
>>
>> Do you mean if for example if someone has images turned off, or if a file
>> reference was wrong, the alt would appear in the space where the image is,
>> but the aria-label won't?
>>
>> If so, I've heard a few discussions of that on the HTML5 group. I think
>> most would say that it is not a cross browser behaviour, and that some
>> browsers show the alt, and others don't show the alt, and that browsers
>> could show the aria-label if they wanted to.
>>
>> The precedence which was set when we removed the requirement for alt on
>> images if there is another means of reporting ACCNAME to the API, (which I
>> was not particularly in favour of), sets a precedent that this behaviour of
>> populating the empty image space with a visible alt, is not considered
>> necessary for conformance by our Committee, and therefore not necessary for
>> conformance here.
>>
>>
>>   Cheers,
>>
>> David MacDonald
>>
>>
>>
>> *CanAdapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>>
>> Tel:  613.235.4902
>>
>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>>
>> www.Can-Adapt.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>>
>> *            Including those with disabilities*
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
>> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL <
>> ryladog@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> David,
>>
>>
>>
>> The other issue was what is visually apparent to users who do not use AT
>> (concerning CSS images), but are not getting the images. There is not alt
>> text. Any ideas on that issue?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ** katie **
>>
>>
>>
>> *Katie Haritos-Shea*
>> *Senior Accessibility SME (WCAG/Section 508/ADA/AODA)*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Cell: 703-371-5545 <703-371-5545> **|* *ryladog@gmail.com*
>> <ryladog@gmail.com> *|* *Oakton, VA **|* *LinkedIn Profile*
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/katieharitosshea/>*|* *Office: 703-371-5545
>> <703-371-5545>*
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2015 12:34 PM
>> *To:* WCAG
>> *Subject:* Discussion of alt for CSS images
>>
>>
>>
>> Reading through the minutes I see there was a discussion about CSS in
>> images... it appears one concern is that it is not announced to screen
>> readers as an image. Although I generally discourage the use or CSS images,
>> if someone has to do them I suggest using role="image"
>>
>> <div role="image" class="myPicture" aria-label="My dog fluffy looking
>> happy">
>>
>> This should announce to a screen reader that it is an image and the
>> alternate text...
>>
>>
>>   Cheers,
>>
>> David MacDonald
>>
>>
>>
>> *CanAdapt* *Solutions Inc.*
>>
>> Tel:  613.235.4902
>>
>> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>>
>> www.Can-Adapt.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *  Adapting the web to all users*
>>
>> *            Including those with disabilities*
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy policy
>> <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Marc Johlic <johlic@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>
>> Minutes for the March 24, 2015 meeting:
>> http://www.w3.org/2015/03/24-wai-wcag-minutes.html
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marc
>>
>>
>> Marc Johlic | Accessibility Consultant - Web, Mobile, & Multimedia | IBM
>> *Accessibility* | IBM Research
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From:        Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>
>> To:        WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>> Date:        03/20/2015 09:30 AM
>> Subject:        WCAG Agenda March 24 2015
>>  ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The WCAG WG will be meeting on Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 11AM Eastern US
>>
>> (Length: up to 90 minutes)
>>
>> Bridge: +1.617.761.6200  (US) Passcode: 9224#
>>
>> IRC: irc.w3.org<http://irc.w3.org>  port: 6665 channel #wai-wcag
>>
>> Scribe list:https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
>>
>> Survey/Agenda
>>
>> 1) WCAG F2F @ TPAC Sapporo, and comment responses etc
>> New survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/24thMarch2015/
>>
>> 2) Techniques work
>>
>> 3) Charter update
>>
>> 4) Reminder about outstanding actions
>>
>> --
>> Joshue O Connor/Andrew Kirkpatrick
>> WCAG working group co-chairs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Regards, James
>
> [image: Oracle] <http://www.oracle.com>
> James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility
> Phone: +1 650 506 6781 <+1%20650%20506%206781> | Mobile: +1 415 987 1918
> <+1%20415%20987%201918> | Video: james.nurthen@oracle.com
> Oracle Corporate Architecture
> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood Cty, CA 94065
> [image: Green Oracle] <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is
> committed to developing practices and products that help protect the
> environment
>