- From: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>
- Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:19:19 -0700
- To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
- Message-ID: <55158307.7050603@oracle.com>
not Jonathan but I think we are talking about things like
#myid:before
{
content:url('http://www.w3.org/2008/site/images/logo-w3c-screen-lg');
}
Regards,
James
On 3/27/2015 9:01 AM, David MacDonald wrote:
> Hi Jonathan
>
> I'm just throwing up some examples now... When you speak of "inline
> CSS images", are you speaking about a regular <img ...> tag which is
> positioned with CSS, or a CSS background image which has been
> positioned inline using CSS?
>
> Cheers,
>
> David MacDonald
>
> *Can**Adapt**Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel: 613.235.4902
>
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.Can-Adapt.com>
>
> / Adapting the web to *all* users/
>
> /Including those with disabilities/
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy
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> //
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Jonathan Avila
> <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:
>
> ØYes that is what I was referring to. I think this is a problem
> especially for low vision users - perhaps we have done a
> disservice to those users in this instance.....
>
> I would agree. So to be clear, we are talking about two issues
> that impact users with low vision.
>
> 1.Use of CSS background images that convey meaning but have
> programmatic names via properties such as aria-label
>
> 2.Use of inline CSS images that convey meaning and have
> programmatic names via properties such as aria-label.
>
> While these two issues may sounds the same – CSS images are
> supposed to be presentational and those background images are
> rightly removed in high contrast mode and when color are often
> turned off by the browser to improve reading contrast for users
> with low vision. Inline images are considered non-presentational
> and thus are still displayed in these modes.
>
> So, IMO the CSS background issue is a more egregious issue while
> the aria-label on inline images is lesser because at least the
> inline image is visually available.
>
> Without any requirement for the user agent to display
> accessibility names for inline images it is problematic and raises
> accessibility support issues.
>
> Use of presentation images with only programmatic indicators seems
> to meet like a failure – but WCAG doesn’t seem to address this
> under 1.1.1 or 1.3.1. Seems like an oversight. For example, WCAG
> WG thought wisely in SC 1.4.1 to require a visual indicator of
> color in addition to a programmatic one – but this didn’t carry
> over to CSS background images as 1.1.1 and 1.3.1 only require
> programmatic indicators and not visual. I think the assumption is
> that everyone can interpret visual information or else they will
> be using assistive technology or a browser that has some
> accessibility feature that compensates. While that is generally
> true – background images seem like a safe thing to remove as they
> are only for background purpose. The problem is that people are
> using CSS background images to convey meaning because use of
> inline images have performance challenges.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> Jonathan
>
> --
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>
> Phone 703.637.8957 <tel:703.637.8957>
> Follow us: Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/#%21/ssbbartgroup> |
> Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/SSBBARTGroup> | LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/355266?trk=tyah> | Blog
> <http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog> | Newsletter
> <http://eepurl.com/O5DP>
>
> *From:*Katie Haritos-Shea [mailto:ryladog@gmail.com
> <mailto:ryladog@gmail.com>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2015 9:45 PM
> *To:* David MacDonald
> *Cc:* WCAG
> *Subject:* Re: Discussion of alt for CSS images
>
> David,
>
> Yes that is what I was referring to. I think this is a problem
> especially for low vision users - perhaps we have done a
> disservice to those users in this instance.....
>
> * katie *
>
> Katie Haritos-Shea @ GMAIL
>
> On Mar 25, 2015 4:05 PM, "David MacDonald" <david100@sympatico.ca
> <mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
>
> Hi Katie
>
> Do you mean if for example if someone has images turned off, or if
> a file reference was wrong, the alt would appear in the space
> where the image is, but the aria-label won't?
>
> If so, I've heard a few discussions of that on the HTML5 group. I
> think most would say that it is not a cross browser behaviour, and
> that some browsers show the alt, and others don't show the alt,
> and that browsers could show the aria-label if they wanted to.
>
> The precedence which was set when we removed the requirement for
> alt on images if there is another means of reporting ACCNAME to
> the API, (which I was not particularly in favour of), sets a
> precedent that this behaviour of populating the empty image space
> with a visible alt, is not considered necessary for conformance by
> our Committee, and therefore not necessary for conformance here.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> David MacDonald
>
> *CanAdapt**Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel: 613.235.4902 <tel:613.235.4902>
>
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.Can-Adapt.com>
>
> /Adapting the web to *all* users/
>
> /Including those with disabilities/
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy
> policy <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Katie Haritos-Shea GMAIL
> <ryladog@gmail.com <mailto:ryladog@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> David,
>
> The other issue was what is visually apparent to users who do not
> use AT (concerning CSS images), but are not getting the images.
> There is not alt text. Any ideas on that issue?
>
> ** katie **
>
> *Katie Haritos-Shea**
> **Senior Accessibility SME (WCAG/Section 508/ADA/AODA)*
>
> *Cell: 703-371-5545 <tel:703-371-5545> **|****ryladog@gmail.com*
> <mailto:ryladog@gmail.com>***|****Oakton, VA **|****LinkedIn
> Profile*
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/katieharitosshea/>***|****Office:
> 703-371-5545 <tel:703-371-5545>*
>
> *From:*David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca
> <mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2015 12:34 PM
> *To:* WCAG
> *Subject:* Discussion of alt for CSS images
>
> Reading through the minutes I see there was a discussion about CSS
> in images... it appears one concern is that it is not announced to
> screen readers as an image. Although I generally discourage the
> use or CSS images, if someone has to do them I suggest using
> role="image"
>
> <div role="image" class="myPicture" aria-label="My dog fluffy
> looking happy">
>
> This should announce to a screen reader that it is an image and
> the alternate text...
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> David MacDonald
>
> *CanAdapt**Solutions Inc.*
>
> Tel: 613.235.4902 <tel:613.235.4902>
>
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100>
>
> www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.Can-Adapt.com>
>
> /Adapting the web to *all* users/
>
> /Including those with disabilities/
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please review our privacy
> policy <http://www.davidmacd.com/disclaimer.html>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Marc Johlic <johlic@us.ibm.com
> <mailto:johlic@us.ibm.com>> wrote:
>
> Minutes for the March 24, 2015 meeting:
> http://www.w3.org/2015/03/24-wai-wcag-minutes.html
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Marc
>
>
> Marc Johlic | Accessibility Consultant - Web, Mobile, &
> Multimedia | IBM *Accessibility* | IBM Research
>
>
>
>
> From: Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie
> <mailto:joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>>
> To: WCAG <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>>
> Date: 03/20/2015 09:30 AM
> Subject: WCAG Agenda March 24 2015
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> The WCAG WG will be meeting on Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 11AM
> Eastern US
>
> (Length: up to 90 minutes)
>
> Bridge: +1.617.761.6200 <tel:%2B1.617.761.6200> (US)
> Passcode: 9224#
>
> IRC: irc.w3.org <http://irc.w3.org><http://irc.w3.org
> <http://irc.w3.org/>> port: 6665 channel #wai-wcag
>
> Scribe list:https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
>
> Survey/Agenda
>
> 1) WCAG F2F @ TPAC Sapporo, and comment responses etc
> New survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/24thMarch2015/
>
> 2) Techniques work
>
> 3) Charter update
>
> 4) Reminder about outstanding actions
>
> --
> Joshue O Connor/Andrew Kirkpatrick
> WCAG working group co-chairs
>
>
--
Regards, James
Oracle <http://www.oracle.com>
James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility
Phone: +1 650 506 6781 <tel:+1%20650%20506%206781> | Mobile: +1 415 987
1918 <tel:+1%20415%20987%201918> | Video: james.nurthen@oracle.com
<sip:james.nurthen@oracle.com>
Oracle Corporate Architecture
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Received on Friday, 27 March 2015 16:19:52 UTC