Re: About proposed 'conforming alternative version' technique

Hi Shadi, 

The technique is - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Creating_a_conforming_alternate_version_for_a_web_page_designed_with_progressive_enhancement

This technique is not about how you generally supply conforming alternate versions - which is why I did not want to mix it up with the WCAG EM conversations… 

This technique offers a solution for specific types of web pages i.e. those developed with progressive enhancement.  And, noting this technique is only for whole web pages, not parts.

My earlier email (below) was written only to provide a little background reading in advance of a chat about this very specific technique - which will hopefully happen in tomorrows WCAG WG meeting. There was too much confusion caused around a previous version of this technique which also included "responsive web design".   The reason the technique had included the term was that broadly speaking people use progressive enhancement to implement their responsive designs (which is what I wanted to draw attention to in the email below).

I would strongly hope that the more general discussions you suggest regarding "conforming alternate versions" will happen separately to the discussions relating to this very specific technique in its specific context.

All the best 

Alistair

On 23 Jun 2014, at 15:42, Shadi Abou-Zahra wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Sorry for jumping in with little context but we've been looking at "conforming alternative versions" fairly closely for WCAG-EM.
> 
> Is the suggestion to replace the current technique or rather to add another one for when responsive design is used?
> 
> Also, there is sometimes mismatch in the WCAG 2.0 documentation on "conforming alternative version" for an entire web page versus for individual components on a web page. Sometimes the text is not very clear on whether it refers to web pages that are intended to be the alternative to other non-conforming web pages, or whether components are intended to be alternative to other non-conforming components (for example, video without captions that has an alternative version with caption). It think some clarifications in the Understanding document and maybe additional Techniques would help make this clearer.
> 
> Best,
>  Shadi
> 
> 
> On 23.6.2014 15:14, Alistair Garrison wrote:
>> Dear WCAG WG,
>> 
>> The fact that progressive enhancement and responsive web design is such a hand-in-glove approach was the main reason for including the term "responsive" in the proposed technique.
>> 
>> I was reminded again of this fact after looking at the following article - http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2013/10/master-responsive-design-with-modernizr/
>> 
>> I shall look forward to discussing the updated technique (focused entirely toward progressive enhancement) in your call tomorrow - but would also like to explore the phrase "responsive web pages designed with progressive enhancement" if there is time - as I think this reflects what is actually happening "at the sharp end"...
>> 
>> Very best regards
>> 
>> Alistair
>> 
>> On 19 Jun 2014, at 09:06, Alistair Garrison wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear WCAG WG,
>>> 
>>> I have now had a chance to make changes to this technique which clarify, and hold on to, the intention behind this technique - focusing it entirely toward progressive enhancement.  I've also adopted a large proportion of the text supplied by AWK and made some minor copy edits.
>>> 
>>> If this new version is acceptable to the group I have asked that its title is changed to "Creating a conforming alternate version for a web page designed with progressive enhancement".
>>> 
>>> I've been asked by Joshue O'Connor to attend your meeting next Tuesday, and will be more than happy to chat over this technique then.
>>> 
>>> Very best regards
>>> 
>>> Alistair Garrison
>>> 
>>> On 18 Jun 2014, at 14:37, Sailesh Panchang wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Reference proposal  [1] below.
>>>> 1. Should this technique be titled along the lines of SCR24 (Using progressive enhancement to open new windows on user request) for instance:
>>>> Suggestion: "Using progressive enhancement to provide access to a conforming alternate version for web pages which are designed to be responsive"
>>>> 
>>>> 2. "provides all of the same information and functionality in the same human language" is at odds with responsive design?
>>>> On a mobile platform, the home page of a site may be quite different when compared to its desktop version,... no? And there may be differences between a tablet and mobile phone version too.
>>>> 
>>>> 3. Assuming for a moment that CSS is the only method of doing responsive design, C29  will accomplish this. But I think the chief difference is that in responsive design, the info content and functionality will differ across device sizes. So C29 may not apply in toto.
>>>> 
>>>> 4. So, in short, what this technique is suggesting is that a non-conformant  page on any device should have a link (or mechanism) to get to a single conformant page, right?
>>>> 
>>>> Let us say on a desktop, a user is able to get to content on a page represented by A, B, C, D, E and F. On a tablet only A, C, D and F are rendered and on a mobile phone, A, D, and E are rendered. So is the expectation that one should be able to get to accessible version of the page containing everything from A to F from a tablet or phone if the tablet / phone versions are non-conformant?
>>>> 
>>>> A tablet user may rightly expect to see only an accessible version of a page containing A, C, D and F I imagine.
>>>> 
>>>> Refer: [1] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_a_script_load_toggle_for_feature_detection_libraries_to_provide_a_conforming_alternate_version
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>> Sailesh Panchang
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Shadi Abou-Zahra - http://www.w3.org/People/shadi/
> Activity Lead, W3C/WAI International Program Office
> Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group (ERT WG)
> Research and Development Working Group (RDWG)
>