Re: HTML5: Table headers attribute should only reference a TH with id?

Janina,
I am looking at the thread 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=704465#c12
and believe the issue is being discussed. I am not clear if the issue needs to be addressed in HTML5 with a bug report.  
The bug I filed with NVDA (#3244) alerted them of the problem and it is being addressed by nvaccess. 

But it is also necessary to clarify use of the scope attribute. Now even when cells are marked up as TH it is  necessary to include the scope attribute.
See issue #3245 on nvaccess.org  or 
Bug 881048 -Recognizing column headers marked up as TH in a table- improvement needed) – NVDA Community#3245(
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=881048
Thanks,
Sailesh Panchang
www.deque.com
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/21/13, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:

 Subject: Re: HTML5: Table headers attribute should only reference a TH with  id?
 To: "Sailesh Panchang" <spanchang02@yahoo.com>
 Cc: "'Mark Sadecki'" <mark@w3.org>, "David MacDonald" <david100@sympatico.ca>, "WCAG WG" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, team-html-a11y@w3.org, kirsten@can-adapt.com
 Date: Friday, June 21, 2013, 5:24 PM
 
 Hello Again, Sailesh:
 
 Thank you for your email regarding table headers.
 
 I believe the current HTML 5.0 specification should reflect
 the approach
 mutually agreed between the WAI_PFWG and the HTML-WG during
 TPAC of
 2008. Minutes of the PF discussion on this can be found at:
 
 https://www.w3.org/2008/10/21-pf-minutes.html#item04
 
 If the specification as currently published does not
 correctly reflect
 our agreement, we can correct that in the 5.0 spec.
 
 If no implementations work as specified, the language may be
 removed
 to meet CR requirements.
 
 In any case, further enhancement is most welcome, but will
 need to be
 made against HTML 5.1. Would you please file a bug against
 HTML 5.1
 noting your comments below as well as the NVDA bug you
 cite?
 
 Thank you.
 
 Janina
 
 Sailesh Panchang writes:
 > I see that HTML5 headers  attribute requires that
 the cells referenced  in it point to TH with id and not
 TD with id.
 > I find this  strange and it sort of completely
 defeats the headers-id technique.
 > The technique is meant to address really complex tables
 that  are irregular and complex  often for reasons
 beyond the author's control.
 > So plain TH and scope are unlikely to make the table
 accessible.
 > Here the headers-id method gives the power to
 associate  a cell that is marked up as TD and visually
 serves as a header cell as a header for benefit of
 non-sighted users.
 > Is it really necessary to  put this constraint
 into the HTML5 standards?
 > 
 > See the Travel Expense Summary table in HTML 4.01 and
 the note in section11.4.2 that recognizes that  it is
 not always possible to mark  up a header cell as TH.
 > Sure for some complex tables where it is possible to
 mark up all header cells as TH and assign it an
 id-value,  the rule has little impact because the
 author can certainly mark them up as TH.
 > But where the author is constrained and cannot mark up
 a cell as TH and yet treat it as a header for other data
 cells, he will be at a loss. 
 > Maybe  one can flag a soft validation error so
 that if authors have accidently omitted to mark up a cell as
 TH it will be brought to their notice.
 > But it should not come in the way of accessibility.
 > Today NVDA depends on Firefox to expose the DOM
 and  table headers and Firefox does not expose a TD
 with an id as a header even if the headers attribute for a
 data cell refers to it. 
 > So please remove this constraint from the HTML specs.
 > Please see and support
 > Bug 881048 -Recognizing column headers marked up as TH
 in a table- improvement needed) – NVDA Community#3245(
 > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=881048
 > 
 > Sailesh Panchang
 > www.deque.com
 
 -- 
 
 Janina Sajka,    Phone:   
 +1.443.300.2200
            
 sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
        
 Email:    janina@rednote.net
 
 Linux Foundation Fellow
 Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:   
 http://a11y.org
 
 The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility
 Initiative (WAI)
 Chair,    Protocols &
 Formats    http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
     Indie UI   
         http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/

Received on Sunday, 23 June 2013 16:47:02 UTC