- From: Lisa Seeman <lisa@ubaccess.com>
- Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:54:38 +0200
- To: John M Slatin <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>, Avi Arditti <aardit@voa.gov>
- Cc: Chris Ridpath <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>, WAI WCAG List <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
>. "SP" is an > acronym I haven't met before. What does it stand for? Sp - semantic pargmatic disorder. > Another question, this time about SWAP or other tools from Ubaccess. Is > it possible for WAP to gather up links that are embedded within main > content (for example within a sentence in the middle of a paragraph) and > move them to the end of the paragraph or section? Yes, but we can do that better, and in a more logical order once we have semantic information about what links roles and relationships are Note SWAP is a site tool and not , strictky speeking, and assistive technology. In otherwords, SWAP can do this for a site, if the site has installed SWAP. I'm asking because a > comment from WWAAC suggests a requirement that links be placed at the > end of paragraphs or document sections rather than embedding them in > content. I understand the rationale but am afraid that such a > requirement would meet with very strong resistance. If this problem can > be solved by user agents it would be very nice! > > Thanks. > John > > > > "Good design is accessible design." > John Slatin, Ph.D. > Director, Accessibility Institute > University of Texas at Austin > FAC 248C > 1 University Station G9600 > Austin, TX 78712 > ph 512-495-4288, f 512-495-4524 > email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu > web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility/ > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lisa Seeman [mailto:lisa@ubaccess.com] > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 1:28 am > To: Avi Arditti; John M Slatin > Cc: Chris Ridpath; WAI WCAG List > Subject: Re: [w3c-wai-gl] <none> - techniques for understandable content > > > > Firstly I would like to volunteer to help here > > important notes of warning. The idea is not to write clearly, but to > write clearly for people with disabilities. > > There are overlaps but there are also differences. For example, some > friendly text might be conmen usage but is confusing for people with SP. > For them longer words that says what it mean is easier to understand. > > For dyslexia layout issues may well take precedence over wording. > > Picture, in place of text, seems to be a winner, but you want to put > pictures in the right place. Overloading a page with too many pictures > can, for some people, make it harder to understand. For a symbol only > page you need to significantly reduce the amount of content. > > There has been a lot of research on what actually works for people with > disabilities. I suggest reviewing it. The best person I can think of > contacting on this is Peter Ranger. He is working on compiling all the > different research on the topic into a single resource. With your > permission I will contact him. > > I put a lot of info gleaned form this research into > http://www.ubaccess.com/ldweb.html. > Bill has an edited version of it at http://www.webeone.org/ldweb/ > > There is also effort to attach strong "how to" techniques to that > document that anyone can join. I am also trying to get some of the > "section 508" folks involved". The advantage being that there is no > process involved and _no_ one asking the question "why would I want to > include people with LD" - Just asking how. > > Keep well > L > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Avi Arditti" <aardit@voa.gov> > To: "John M Slatin" <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu> > Cc: "Chris Ridpath" <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>; <lisa@ubaccess.com>; > "WAI WCAG List" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:26 PM > Subject: Re: [w3c-wai-gl] <none> > > > > Hi John, > > > > My friend Dr. Annetta Cheek was a guest of the Mexican government for > > the launch of the "people's language" campaign. With her permission, I > > > am forwarding the report she sent to her bosses in the U.S. > > government: > > > > ... The Secretary of Public Function (a relatively new organization in > > > the government) is sponsoring most of these initiatives. They are > > starting a major plain language initiative, and invited several > > international guests for a kick-off week. I was there along with a > > linguist from the government of Sweden, a linguist from academia in > > Spain, and a plain language advocate from the Plain Language > > Commission in Britain, a private sector organization. > > > > It was a terrific few days. Aside from the fact that they were great > > hosts, it was exciting to see an attempt to start a plain language > > initiative with support from the very top of the government. On > > Monday, the four international guests spent the day attending the > > Mexican government's first plain language workshop. They asked us to > > comment on the workshop to make it better. > > > > On Tuesday, we took part in an event from 10 to 2:30. In addition to > > our panel, there were speakers from the Mexican government and a short > > > video of support from President Fox. We were speaking to a crowd of > > about 1000 government managers. The four international guests were > > very pleased about how well our talks all fit together to make a > > whole, and we hadn't even collaborated on it. The government sponsors > > > were also very pleased about how it turned out. > > > > On Wed. we spoke to a small group of academics, to try to convince > > them it was important to teach good, clear writing in academia from > > the earliest grades. > > > > Aside from the terrific support this is getting from the government, > > the most exciting part of the trip was learning that all four > > international experts agreed on what techniques are important to plain > > > language. I had expected that, since Spanish is a more formal > > language than English, they would not be trying for sentences with an > > average of 20 words, eliminating passive voice, and using pronouns. > > But both the professor from Spain and the workshop developed in Mexico > > > advocated these principles, as did the representatives from UK and > > Sweden. > > > > Everyone also agreed on a number of other techniques, including > > focusing on the audience, structuring the document carefully, > > designing the document for an easy to read appearance, using > > informative headings, using tables and lists, and so on. It was > > exciting to see the agreement within the international community, and > > talk to folks from different countries who are involved in plain > > language efforts. > > > > > > > > John M Slatin wrote: > > > > > > In a few days I will be starting work on General Techniques for > > > Guideline 3.1. I'll start by combing the WCAG and IG lists for > > > comments on this one, and talking with colleagues in various modern > > > language departments here and elsewhere. One important goal will be > > > to come up with techniques that make sense not just for English but > > > for other languages, especially non-Western languages. I invite > > > those of you who have expertise in those languages to share your > > > knowledge and insight. > > > > > > I'm especially interested in learning about textbooks on writing > > > and/or other manuals, style guides, etc., for languages other than > > > English. In the United States there is a large body of theoretical > > > and practical research on writing and writing instruction, and there > > > > are many textbooks and guides. There it will be helpful to locate > > > such things for other countries and languages-- and important to be > > > mindful of the limitations, such as languages and cultures where > > > comparable texts either don't exist or are much less common. > > > > > > I'm also interested in hearing from anyone who knows of readability > > > tests for languages other than English. Ditto for plain language > > > lexicons in languages other than English. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > John > > > > > > "Good design is accessible design." > > > John Slatin, Ph.D. > > > Director, Accessibility Institute > > > University of Texas at Austin > > > FAC 248C > > > 1 University Station G9600 > > > Austin, TX 78712 > > > ph 512-495-4288, f 512-495-4524 > > > email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu > > > web http://www.utexas.edu/research/accessibility/ > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org [mailto:w3c-wai-gl-request@w3.org] > > > On Behalf Of Chris Ridpath > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:48 am > > > To: lisa@ubaccess.com; WAI WCAG List > > > Subject: Re: [w3c-wai-gl] <none> > > > > > > > I would love to see some tests for clear writing... > > > > > > > This is a tricky one. I believe that there are tests for clear > > > writing but, to be accurate, they require a large amount of expert > > > involvement. There's also a very basic test, the FOG index, that > > > gives a rough indication of writing style. Right now, I'm not sure > > > how we're going to test for this. > > > > > > I can perceive this requirement, clear writing, as an infringement > > > on a person's right to freedom of expression so it may be difficult > > > to enforce. > > > > > > > Not minimizing the real usefulness of this work, a lot of the > > > > tests do > > > > > > > not guarantee conformance or accessibility, but are a useful as a > > > > yard stick and as an alarm bell... > > > > > > > The goal of the test suite is that it can be used to test HTML > > > content to see if it conforms to the guidelines. I hope we can come > > > close to reaching that goal. > > > > > > Once the test suite is finished, I'd like to challenge authors to > > > create pages that pass the test suite but are still have > > > accessibility problems. And challenge authors to create pages fail > > > the test suite but are still accessible. This process should help > > > ensure the test suite is valid. > > > > > > > 3, puting the two points together. A sentence that has > > > > a, a low reading age score, > > > > b, a low number of conjunctions and comers, > > > > c, is short > > > > is probably clear and simple. > > > > > > > This seems to be heading in the right direction for it to be > > > testable. But it would still require an expert to examine the text. > > > Is this the sort of thing that guideline 3.1 means? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Chris > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <lisa@ubaccess.com> > > > To: "Chris Ridpath" <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>; "WAI WCAG List" > > > <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 7:35 AM > > > Subject: [w3c-wai-gl] <none> > > > > > > > Looks like a lot of work Chris > > > > > > > > a few comments > > > > > > > > 1, I would love to see some tests for clear writing, which for > > > > English > > > > > > > there are a lot. Are you writing them? 2, Not minimizing the real > > > > usefulness of this work, a lot of the tests do not guarantee > > > > conformance or accessibility, but are a useful as a yard stick > > > > and as > > > > > > > an alarm bell... > > > > > > > > The best yard stick is still testing your interface with people > > > > with disabilities. It would be a shame for people to reduce the > > > > amount of user testing. I would like to see something along > > > > thoughs lines as a footnote on each test page. > > > > > > > > 3, puting the two points together. A sentence that has > > > > a, a low reading age score, > > > > b, a low number of conjunctions and comers, > > > > c, is short > > > > is probably clear and simple. > > > > > > > > Certainly failing these "testable" criteria is a good alarm bell > > > > that > > > > > > > you may want a rewrite. But to be safe, test with users with > > > > Learning disabilities > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep well > > > > Lisa Seeman > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Received on Monday, 8 November 2004 09:01:33 UTC